That's a bit radical don't you think?

Just because you understand the basicis of something doens't mean that there's no room for expand on it.

And just because there is room to expand on something doesn't mean that its foundations are wrong.

This idea that everything needs to be known in complete detail, or not at all, is truly asburd.

Moreover, the people that most often have this mentality are people who are clinging to highly questionable unproven ancient conflicting stories that they insist is the word of God.

A 'word' that proclaims women to be inferior to men and even spiritually unclean! A 'word' that proclaims that God hates non-beleivers and will be mean to them with no mercy.

It's a truly hateful religion that proclaims that all men are sinners and have failed their creator to the point where their creator had to sacrifice his own son just to offer men a way to be 'forgiven'. Like asking men to murder God's son somehow makes them worth forgiving.

Mixed messages in the worst possible way supposedly coming from an 'all-wise' creator.

I don't think so.

If we want to speak about any 'evidence' of proof. I think we have more than enough proof that our creator can't possibly be like the Bible claims. The stories of how God himself behaves in the Bible contradicts the very essence of what the Bible claims that God is like.

There's no way that a truly loving God could get egotistically pissed off at people for not believing stories that are so utterly absurd and bigoted and hateful.

It's crystal clear that Mediterranean mythologies don't have anything at all to do with the creator of this universe.

Anyone who would even remotely be questioning evolution should have chalked the bible up to manmade lies long ago. There's no way that our creator could be as hateful as the bible claims.

No. I am saying that in order for me to accept that the world's population as we understand it today originated from one female and one male that were animated by some formless grand creatrix that resides in the clouds no less, I would need to have faith in the incredulous. It would also beg that I suspend my personal understanding of reality and what is biologically feasible.

In order for me to first understand and then either accept or reject Darwin's theory of Natural Selection, all I need do is read his book and decide for myself based on the supportive evidence presented for the components found within biological evolution. There is room for hypothesis, experiment, error, discovery and determination based on the observable cause and effect. Not so much with the bible. Darwin's theory, unlike the scripture, is based on key observations and through demonstrative scientific principle. From this we can make inferences and eventually reach conclusions to our own personal satisfaction.

And the icing on the cake for me, is if I choose to question his thoughts and premises, I wont go to hell.

majyk man i agree with your take on the book i was questioning the validity of the observed, i dont believe everything i see or feel or touch or have contact with to be unquestionalble, in fact i beleive the senses lie to us all the time, thus my question.

can't argue with the last part -

Well as demonstrated the entire concept of "divine inspiration" is totally subjective anyway. If you are predisposed to not accept the premise behind evolutionary biology or even understand it, then you would be much more likely to assume anything that refutes it to be "inspired." And vice versa to be fair.

If you don't even trust your own experiences then why bother asking other people their views?

Do you trust other people's experiences over yours?

agreed i dont believe in either one. though to be fair i have not really studied it as you or abra and others, it's just that i don't have any interest in it.

"This idea that everything needs to be known in complete detail, or not at all, is truly asburd."

Abracadabra


I think thats a key insight. It seems that some people just have to have ALL the answers and the bible can offer this to them IF, they dont question it and have faith. Science just doesn't work that way. Of course we cant know exactly what Paranthropus robustus looked like but we can make an educated guess based on the recovered skeletal remains. You get a handle on it and move on to the next problem.

Well Sam, to be fair here, I have no interest in the bible and have no desire to read it, yet I have been doing just that to get a basic understanding of what all the fuss is over. It certainly hasn't moved me in any respect. If anything I have found it to be quite boring most of the time interspersed with horrendous, mind boggling stupidity, misogyny, violence and hatred. Thats my take on it so far.

So while I understand your lack of interest in evolutionary biology entirely, it is the only other viable theory that we have beyond Creationism. At least those are the "big two" . So you are rejecting one premise (Christianity) after you were a practitioner of the faith for a period of time, and you are also rejecting the origins of man as being biologically based in the theory of evolution simply because you have a "lack of interest" in the subject matter. Hmmm.

is there some majykal law that forbids me to do so? are you asking me not to? are you now making laws i have to abide by? have you raised yourself to a god status? ae you looking for me to abide by your rules? not a chance.

you got it, i could care less about it. the only reason i discuss the book is because i know it and once accepted it, now as you know i dont but i still like to debate it. i have no interest in debating evolution, or reading about it - once in a while i see something on the science channel i find interesting but not enough to move me to study it. the same goes for cosmology. interesting at times but no real deep seated interest. now if you want to discuss scientific color theory or decorative and protective polymer science i'm up for that. that is my feild of work, so i know it well, just as your feild is yours, i doubt you'll go study munseel, prang,ostwald color theory though because you have no interest, no need no desire to. we all have things that for one reason or another were drawn to, evolution is not one of mine.

Yes but thats what I just said! I have no interest in the bible....oh nevermind. Have a good day. I will give you a call next time I need my fences painted.

nah, dont do fences but if you have a 50 million dollar yacht give me a call.

The point I was making (perhaps unclear) was that I extended myself a bit and took on an odious, time consuming chore. In my case, that would be reading the bible. Uhhh. But I am doing it. Not from start to finish but I skip around. Otherwise, so help me, I will go insane.

So, though I am sympathetic to your lack of interest because I am in the exact same boat with the scripture, I did make a personal effort in order to learn something new. The only reason I did this was because we have two primary theories as it pertains to the origin of man. I am full heartedly sold on evolution. No secret there. However I felt it my personal responsibility to develop at least a working knowledge of the bible.

I am speaking for myself, you can do whatever you like. Dont you ever wonder since you have rejected both?

I was just asking a question for god's sake.

Well, actually I was asking it on my own behalf, but I'm sure god would be interested as well.

Two primary theories?

The bible isn't a 'theory' it's a religion. And there are many other religions that claim that man came to be in many various ways. So if you're going to include religious ideas for how man came to be, there are a hell of a lot more than just the Mediterranean folklore my dear.

Oh alright Abra, lets say theory of evolution vs. ALL other creation mythology? I simply chose Christianity because I have three stolen bibles here and this forum is somewhat dominated by a handful of high profile fundies.

Did you listen to my bell chant?

We could create a whole list of reasons why the universe should have never been created.

No Im sorry, still no speaker. That settles it. I will go get one tomorrow. Im just a lazy bastard and its a half hour drive where I need to drive to get it. There is certainly no reason for the universe to be here in my opinion. I dont even think about it now however because Im here and I need to deal with this bullshi-

Is your voice actually on there or is it instrumental?

and pray tell, why would you want to take on a odius time consuming chore? aren't there enough of those in life already? i guarantee you if it's not something i find interesting i could care less whether or not i ever read it - i have to have a real interest in something to do that. i'm self taught for the most part K, i only completed high school and everything else i leaerned came by reading on my wn and i picked and cose what interested me, i dont read novels for the most part nor do i watch much tv, i am a musician and song writer and thats where my real interest lies and i enjoy writing also. past that as i say i have to really be interested such as learning of my ancestral roots and the like to motivate me to read and learn something. my degree in poymer science is a 1 yrs commercial/industrial tghing not a colledge degree and with that i spent the next 25b yrs continueing to learn that feild. i'm now in the top 5% of my field of work and that didn't come easy but i loved chemistry or at least that part of chemistry i still dont know all the other feilds.