see my post on - "happy birthday jesus" - copy it and give the cards to your co-workers - then tell them that the winter solstice is pagan and when you celebrate it it's not about christ. maybe we can get them to move the date to where it's supposed to be [that goes for Easter(Ishtar) - and others also.] maybe if they understood these holidays were brought into the church by the popes to Christianize the worshippers of those feast/celebrations, to GROW the church they would stop doing it.

Tell them to get thier own original ideas for holy days.

Thats true. Yule is so Pagan. It was a celebration originally designed to hurry along the winter and invite the spring. It was very cold and dark and people couldn't wait. The truth of the matter is, you cant hurry the seasons and they are going to be done when they are done. You can however drink a lot of homemade cider and egg nog and that is bound to take the edge off the cold.

No, One should strive not to make the discrinination worse.

So you'd rather spit in his face and get your head bashed in than walk out?

On second thought, it guess it could get you somewhat of a martyr status, which might ultimately be more beneficial to "the cause" than walking away. (No sarcasm intended at all.)

and just where would we be if through out history we didn't strive SKY?

Not gonna take that bait tribo I said "should strive" not "shoudln't strive".

And in any case, I think we shouldn't strive for discord, disharmony, bigotry, prejudice, etc.

PHHHTT! your no fun sky!! oh well back to argueing with eljay i guess - hahaha

Standing up for your beliefs and prinicipals has never made discrimination worse. In fact, if one didn't how would discrimination end? I agree that how you go about it is very important. But, I ask you......if my employers continue to allow Chrisitian symbols at work and tell pagans they cannot exhibit the same symbols do you think that by abiding with that this would somehow change by itself?

Spreading hate for Jesus sake, what an oxymoron.

A lot of people use Christianity as an excuse for biogtry. They pretend to be bigots for the Lord and thus feel that they are righteous in their slime.

This is the real crux of the matter. A lot of people simply use religion as an excuse to be egotistical in the name of God.

It's seriously pathetic, and Christianity loans itself to that kind of blatant bigotry because other Christians will blindly support the bigot in the name of Jesus.

How often to do you see a Christian reprimanding another Christian for their bigotry?

Almost never!

That's the real danger of the religion, and jerk can start trouble in the name of Jesus and all the other Christians either back the bigot up, or meekly shy away into the background.

In fact, if a Christian does speak out that will only get them accused of being a 'false Christian'.

It's a dangerous religion. No doubt about.

Ruth what set this off exactly? Was it just your jewelry at work and HR didnt approve of it or what happened exactly? Can you be a little more specific about the details and what led to what? Were you confronted? If so, by whom? Co-workers or HR personnel?

It depends on what you mean by “standing up for your beliefs”. If you define discrimination as “an unfounded belief in an inherent superiority”, and “standing up for your beliefs” is nothing but stating that your beliefs are just as valid as someone else’s. Then you have, in fact, done nothing to change the discrimination. All you’ve done is state an opinion that is contrary to theirs, which just serves to strengthen the unreasonableness of their beliefs.

And if you gather together a big enough group to make laws against actions that you consider discriminatory, then yes, you have in fact made the discrimination worse because now the bigots resent you not only from their unreasoned sense of superiority, but because now you have made it dangerous for them to feel the way they feel.

No, but protesting against it won’t either. Insisting on your right to wear a symbol that will upset your co-workers does not, in any way, change the underlying discriminatory viewpoint. It only adds resentment on top of it.


So really “how you go about it” is the most important factor. If you really want to change other people’s prejudices, try using some of the techniques used by propaganda and marketing. Get them to change their minds without them even knowing that its happening.

Many Christians see others as "false Christians" or not real Christians. It is difficult to tell what a Christian is these days.

I'm quite confused about that.

As for harassing pagans, well, they think they are stamping out the spread of evil.

Good luck with that.

As I said in my last post, a lot of people who claim to be 'religious' aren't truly 'religious' at all. They are just using religion as an excuse to pretend that their bigoted attitudes are righteous.

You aren't about to change those people's minds because they are using religion as an egotistical crutch.

To try to change their mind would be like trying to change the mind of a herion addict without direct intervention. It just isn't going to happen.

You can't assume that all people are 'honest' in their religion.

Christianity attracts bigots. That's a fact! I'm not saying that all Christians are bigots, but none the less, Christianity attracts bigots and people who feel a need to have 'authority'.

Christianity allows anyone to become a 'Paper Pope'. Anyone can start a bigoted riot in the name of Jesus. Especially against someone who is openly confessing to be a witch!

Where did Jesus ever tell anyone to be nice to witches?

Many people burned witches at the stake in the name of Jesus Christ their Lord and Savior!

Besides, the Bible is full of God denouncing 'heathens'.

A lot of bigots love Christianity because it allows them to practice their bigoty and pretend to be righteous in the name of God, and especially in the name of Jesus Christ their lord and savior.

Exactly.

Anyone can call themselves a "Christian" that doesn't make them righteous or right.

in my opinion - there are very few "REAL" christians today even among that truly believe they are - study first century christian history and compare that to now or really any time for the last 1700 yrs or so - BIG DIFF!!

I was asked on another thread some time back and i responded i doubt if more than 5% of people who claim to be christians are really what history says christians are to be, proof - church buildings, mass media coverage [TV, radio, etc..] patterning themselves After non christian devices[ C - movies, music, books, business, gala events in the churches and elsewhere.] why would real christians pattern themselves or christ after worldly things when told they are not of this world and to keep themselves from it? it's one thing for them to live in this world - another to be part of it and drag jesus into it also, would jesus approve of what they've done? I think not. Christian music? yes fine - C music based on rock and roll [once called by them the devils music] NO! C-rap?, C'mon! can you see jesus rapping -

a multi-billion dollar business/commerce/empire - has been built by christians on the name of jesus, i think its the biggest drawback of all - what is left that makes christ any different than the pope or Elvis, or back street boys, or wall street, or jewish movie moguls, or all the other so called heathen practices - they are every bit as guilty as the Pharisee's and sadducees of old and their end if there god is real will be the same if he can be counted on to be never changing as they state.

So show me the christian willing to die by speaking forth his beliefs under persecution now days - many will claim it "FEW" will do it when faced with torture and the like. Now that i've stirred the pot get ready for the pitbulls of god to take offence and be up in arms. should be interesting.

My situation exactly is this:

I was out with my supervisor and other girls from the office on Friday night. Girls night out. Someone mentioned something about my beliefs and a conversation was started. My supervisor suddenly says, "you should be careful with how open you are at work about that because of Kary (the director of the parenting programs and family counseling section). She doesn't like that and really got into a big fight with some of the local pagans over using Christian based teaching materials in the court ordered parenting classes."

I was stunned as neither my supervisor nor anyone in my office nor the Director of Public Safety (where I work) has ever said anything to me about this. I didn't want to discuss it at the party so I moved along the conversation.

Now, my guess is that she brought this up as a warning to me because next month we are all moving into a new office building and will be sharing space with the Families in Action staff (Kary being the head of this program). So, I will be having daily contact with this woman. I have not had a chance to ask my supervisor any further questions about this but it definitely got me thinking about it. So, I have had no one tell me anything like "you can't wear that". But, I'm wondering what's coming if I do.

Oh I see. I thought you had already been approached and told not to wear the Pagan jewelry by actual HR staff. It sounds to me like this is more preemptive and to avoid a potential problem in the future. I would not over react in that case and dont necessarily anticipate a problem as that might make you feel self conscious around her. Just dress like normal and wear your jewelry but dont talk about your beliefs in front of her or at work (which you probably dont do anyway). I bet it never even comes up.

That's exactly what I'm going to do. It was just the first time it ever came up for me and it really started me thinking. I have always been "in the broom closet" and only came out about 6 months ago.