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| Topic: Quantum mechanics' knowledge | |
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So in other words, the only explantion is to abandon everything we know, LOGIC, PHYSICS, and EVERYTHING. Oh don't be so melodramatic Abra. It's happened before and it will happen again.
   
Well, I always knew the world ran on magic. But the idea that science could actually confirm it is quite dramatic doncha think? 
I don't care anymore. 
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I don't care anymore.
You don't care that it's magic? You don't care that science confirmed it? Or you just plain don't care anymore? Curious minds want to know.
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I don't care who's right or wrong
I don't care who sings the song I don't care what's going on I don't care about the chatter I don't care it doesn't matter. Its not science, its not magic Sometimes, good, sometimes tragic It is what it is just Make the best of it Forget about the all rest of it. I don't care what people think It may be good, or it may stink I will simply take my leave I don't care what they believe jb |
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Edited by
MirrorMirror
on
Sat 09/27/08 07:53 PM
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I don't care who's right or wrong I don't care who sings the song I don't care what's going on I don't care about the chatter I don't care it doesn't matter. Its not science, its not magic Sometimes, good, sometimes tragic It is what it is just Make the best of it Forget about the all rest of it. I don't care what people think It may be good, or it may stink I will simply take my leave I don't care what they believe jb  For further information, consult your pineal gland.
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 A live body and a dead body contain the same number of particles. Structurally, there's no discernible difference. Life and death are unquantifiable abstracts. Why should I be concerned?
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I like magic!
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 A much-discussed alternative to homogeneous big-bang nucleosynthesis has been the first-order quark-hadron phase-transition-inspired inhomogeneous model.
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Mirror Mirror on the wall
who's most careless of them all? Could it be our Jeanniebean, or is that thought a bit obscene? She accepts whatever comes She sees the diamonds in the slums She feels that life is nothing more than spirits beating on their drums It's a holographic show an orchestra that we bestow by thinking thoughts of many plots as we live our lives and grow It matters not from whence it came to participate should be your aim don't look around for things to blame just play the gawdamn game! Enjoy your life before it's o'er don't point and blame, or be a bore just do the things that you adore but be at peace, and not at war For every wave that you create will become the food upon your plate and all your deeds will be your fate so show some love and never hate The light that you become will become your light of day and if you shine it bright enough you'll be a rainbow in bouquet So take what life is offering don't ask from whence it came For you and I are both "I AM" there is no other name |
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Mirror Mirror on the wall who's most careless of them all? Could it be our Jeanniebean, or is that thought a bit obscene? She accepts whatever comes She sees the diamonds in the slums She feels that life is nothing more than spirits beating on their drums It's a holographic show an orchestra that we bestow by thinking thoughts of many plots as we live our lives and grow It matters not from whence it came to participate should be your aim don't look around for things to blame just play the gawdamn game! Enjoy your life before it's o'er don't point and blame, or be a bore just do the things that you adore but be at peace, and not at war For every wave that you create will become the food upon your plate and all your deeds will be your fate so show some love and never hate The light that you become will become your light of day and if you shine it bright enough you'll be a rainbow in bouquet So take what life is offering don't ask from whence it came For you and I are both "I AM" there is no other name  Hey,,,wait just one cotton pickin minute here........ 
I am,,,,,,,,,I am,,,,,,,,,am I not?lol,lol
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I like magic!
I've decided to believe in magick. Truly I have. I've been reading a book about magick. Not stage magic, but spiritual magick. One of the things that it stresses is that you must believe! Magick won't work unless you believe in it! It's not science! It's spiritual! And the spiritual world only works if you believe in it. Ye must believe! Sounds biblical doesn't it? Actually I personally believe that's what Jesus was teaching. He was teaching spiritual magick. Christians don't realize this but I actually believe in Jesus, just not in the way they do. I think the religious doctrine has totally confused and distorted his message. I also feel that he actually denounced the Old Testament. But that's another story. In any case, I'm becomming an honest to goodness shaman.
Who would have thunk it? A hardcore scientist becomes a witch.
How ironic too! I didn't pick my screen name. It was given to me by the universe! And now owl start to use it properly.
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I am,,,,,,,,,I am,,,,,,,,,am I not?lol,lol
This sounds like something you should be doing whilst pulling petals off a daisy. 
I AM I AM not Am too Am not Am too Am not ... To pluck or not to pluck? That is the flowering question. |
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I like magic!
I've decided to believe in magick. Truly I have. I've been reading a book about magick. Not stage magic, but spiritual magick. One of the things that it stresses is that you must believe! Magick won't work unless you believe in it! It's not science! It's spiritual! And the spiritual world only works if you believe in it. Ye must believe! Sounds biblical doesn't it? Actually I personally believe that's what Jesus was teaching. He was teaching spiritual magick. Christians don't realize this but I actually believe in Jesus, just not in the way they do. I think the religious doctrine has totally confused and distorted his message. I also feel that he actually denounced the Old Testament. But that's another story. In any case, I'm becomming an honest to goodness shaman.
Who would have thunk it? A hardcore scientist becomes a witch.
How ironic too! I didn't pick my screen name. It was given to me by the universe! And now owl start to use it properly.
You have to believe for a year before it starts working, and then. You can Sham,,,,,wink,lol How ya been Abra?
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You may now become an apprentice Shaman.
You have to believe for a year before it starts working, and then. You can Sham,,,,,wink,lol How ya been Abra?
Oh pooh. I was hoping to get started sooner than that. Oh well, I'm a patient man. Better late then never.
I'm not sure what owl dew with the magick anyway. Maybe owl use it to bring a smile to someone's face.
Owl build a magick wand of happiness that I can wave at unhappy people.
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You may now become an apprentice Shaman.
You have to believe for a year before it starts working, and then. You can Sham,,,,,wink,lol How ya been Abra?
Oh pooh. I was hoping to get started sooner than that. Oh well, I'm a patient man. Better late then never.
I'm not sure what owl dew with the magick anyway. Maybe owl use it to bring a smile to someone's face.
Owl build a magick wand of happiness that I can wave at unhappy people.
Now that is magic I believe in. Magic is what makes people smile. |
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Hell, if I can get my car started on a freezing cold New Hampshire morning, I call that magic.
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That's what we know!. Why it is that way, we can't explain, and the brightest minds of humanity have been working on this problem for close to a century now! In fact, it has already been proven that no answer can be found that is consistent with our cherished notions of classical physics.
Abra, I have been working on my own conceptual understanding regarding the implications of QM, while simultaneously researching other areas which apply in as well, the data, the experiments, different interpretations, etc. It seems to me that the entire concept hinges completely on the wave-particle duality problem and the Heisenberg uncertainty... The Heisenberg uncertainty relation applies a quantitative value placement to the uncertainty, and holds that it falls into it's limits... that value is just about equal to Plank's constant. Planck's constant connects a photon's energy to it's amplitude, if I understand this correctly. This was done to solve the oven problem concerning the infinite energy yhat classical physics' solutions proposed... I think that this is the source of the problem... I am still working on this understanding though... |
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The bottom line is that the universe is indeed quantized.
But in a very strange way. The so-called 'particles' apparently behave as waves on the quantum level. However, the problem with this is that waves are spread out over spacetime, whereas particles are located at a point. Where the problem comes into play is that at the quantum level a given 'particle' must be BOTH a wave and a particle simultaneously. That means that it must be BOTH spread out over spacetime, AND localized at a point. The problem is best understood via the double-slit experiment. This is also known as the problem of the 'collapse of the wave function'. When a particle isn't being measured (which simply means not interacting with atoms), a particle is spread out over a wide area of space. However, when it interacts it must do so at very localized point. The question then becomes, "How does this wave know which point will be the point of interaction?" It can't know ahead of time, and that's the crux of the problem right there. How do you allow for the wave to know what's going to happen ahead of time without endowing it with 'faster than light' perception and reaction? But once you allow for that, you've given up cause and effect. It appears to be a lose-lose situation. You have to allow for superluminal communication. But as soon as you do that it's the same as saying that it can't be explained using the physics that we are used to. (i.e. Cause and effect has to take a hike) But you are right. It's definitely the wave-particle duality that's the problem. To explain it you must explain how a quantum entity can be both localized and non-localized at the same time. And you must do this without violating our cherished law of cause and effect. If you give up cause and effect don't be do excited about your result because someone else had probably already given those kinds of explanations. There are actually quite a few 'explanations' that violate physics. None of them are truly satistifying. The most common one just says that things happen randomly. (i.e. no cause, just random effects). This is the one that is the most popular and Einstein didn't like. However, the EPR experiment seems to fly in the face of it being totally random because of quantum entanglement which just makes the problem even more tenacious. Another solution is that our universe is interacting with parallel universe that are almost identical in every way save for a few atoms here and there. That idea actually salvages cause and effect, but in order to salvage it, it requires an infinity of almost identical universes. In fact, it requires that the universe is 'splitting' into infinitely many new universes every fraction of a second on the quantum scale. We're talking about so many universes being created with every atomic interaction that it's beyond our wildest comprehension. All that just to save cause and effect.
There are actually other explanations. More 'reasonable' ones. I personally like the idea of multiple dimensions some of which are superluminal and some of which are not. They it can be made to work in a weird kind of way whilst saving cause and effect, yet allowing for a way to cheat cause and effect under certain circumstances. Personally I think that's the most likely scenario. Then Jeanniebean can claim that the superluminal dimension is where we do our 'mental hologram projecting', but we physically just live in the subluminal part. That's probably the most pragmatic explanation. But it can't be proven by science because no one knows how to access the superluminal dimension to verify that it's there. Although, Jeanniebean is practicing various techniques so who knows. Maybe she'll find one. |
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What is it that we can know or have learned about actual reality according to quantum mechanics??? How are all possible answers an answer???? |
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What is it that we can know or have learned about actual reality according to quantum mechanics??? How are all possible answers an answer???? Quantim mechanics seem's to imply that things exist only as momemtun of the universe allows them to. In this we can only speculate the we have no comprehension of the actual forces that are regulating, if any, the expansion or movement of the universe. One way of expressing this is: Do black holes exist, or are they the void of all existance? Fascinating question to ponder. I have always insisted that it is impossible for "NOTHING" to exist. Is being "void of all existence" equivalent to the existence of Nothing? If so, how would you define "existence?" Things not yet imagined? If a black hole is just something that is void of all existence, then could it be a doorway to another world or to nothing? In this universe, everything is in motion. Perhaps a black hole is a place with no motion at all. Just a thought. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Mon 10/06/08 01:39 PM
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The bottom line is that the universe is indeed quantized. But in a very strange way. The so-called 'particles' apparently behave as waves on the quantum level. However, the problem with this is that waves are spread out over spacetime, whereas particles are located at a point. Where the problem comes into play is that at the quantum level a given 'particle' must be BOTH a wave and a particle simultaneously. That means that it must be BOTH spread out over spacetime, AND localized at a point. The problem is best understood via the double-slit experiment. This is also known as the problem of the 'collapse of the wave function'. When a particle isn't being measured (which simply means not interacting with atoms), a particle is spread out over a wide area of space. However, when it interacts it must do so at very localized point. The question then becomes, "How does this wave know which point will be the point of interaction?" It can't know ahead of time, and that's the crux of the problem right there. How do you allow for the wave to know what's going to happen ahead of time without endowing it with 'faster than light' perception and reaction? But once you allow for that, you've given up cause and effect. It appears to be a lose-lose situation. You have to allow for superluminal communication. But as soon as you do that it's the same as saying that it can't be explained using the physics that we are used to. (i.e. Cause and effect has to take a hike) But you are right. It's definitely the wave-particle duality that's the problem. To explain it you must explain how a quantum entity can be both localized and non-localized at the same time. And you must do this without violating our cherished law of cause and effect. If you give up cause and effect don't be do excited about your result because someone else had probably already given those kinds of explanations. There are actually quite a few 'explanations' that violate physics. None of them are truly satistifying. The most common one just says that things happen randomly. (i.e. no cause, just random effects). This is the one that is the most popular and Einstein didn't like. However, the EPR experiment seems to fly in the face of it being totally random because of quantum entanglement which just makes the problem even more tenacious. Another solution is that our universe is interacting with parallel universe that are almost identical in every way save for a few atoms here and there. That idea actually salvages cause and effect, but in order to salvage it, it requires an infinity of almost identical universes. In fact, it requires that the universe is 'splitting' into infinitely many new universes every fraction of a second on the quantum scale. We're talking about so many universes being created with every atomic interaction that it's beyond our wildest comprehension. All that just to save cause and effect.
There are actually other explanations. More 'reasonable' ones. I personally like the idea of multiple dimensions some of which are superluminal and some of which are not. They it can be made to work in a weird kind of way whilst saving cause and effect, yet allowing for a way to cheat cause and effect under certain circumstances. Personally I think that's the most likely scenario. Then Jeanniebean can claim that the superluminal dimension is where we do our 'mental hologram projecting', but we physically just live in the subluminal part. That's probably the most pragmatic explanation. But it can't be proven by science because no one knows how to access the superluminal dimension to verify that it's there. Although, Jeanniebean is practicing various techniques so who knows. Maybe she'll find one. I am not familiar with the term "superluminal" but I believe the the wave-particle duality problem can easily be solved. It is not a particle at all, it is a wave that "behaves" like a particle. So stop thinking of it as a particle that can be measured, it is always a wave and always in motion so it cannot be measured or located. The double spit experiment can be explained in terms of frequencies I would be willing to bet. But my brain bleeds when I focus on such details, so I have to say... oh well, they will figure it out eventually. We are living in a (universal mind created) holographic-type reality projected by the mind. jb |
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