hes been pretty consistent with me, i dont think hes the trouble. Again this is just how i diagnose problems, when i fix computers, find out whats working and go from there.

I'm just talking about the Bible. By it's own proclaimation God changes and is therefore undependable.

Clearly if the real creator of this universe is dependable, then it's highly unlikely that the Bible has anything to do with it.

I just don't know why people are so bent on believing in a book that seems to contradict what they claim God is actually like.

Seems to me they would be denouncing the book as having been a fabrication of man. Clearly they don't seem to like the picture that the Bible portrays.

That's all I'm saying.

They seem to want God to be different from what the Bible claims, yet at the same time they want to claim that the Bible is the word of God.

Maybe it's just the people who are being schizophrenic.

So science is inconsistent because it changes.. or Can God change with time?

Society changes, what was once acceptable isnt acceptable now.. Again, explain to people 2000 years ago a keyboard.. or computer chip. They would think you were crazy, which is why Old vs new testament changes to make people understand.. Then again you have alot of "if i was God" opinions =),

Nature doesn't change.

Only man's understanding of it changes.

Big difference.

If a judgemental authoritarian God changes his rules midstream then he can't be trusted to be consistent.

That's not just mankind's understanding changing. That would be a fundamental change in the personality and behavior of God.

That would be an inconsistent God.

Nature very well changes, Manly influences...
Examples?

or a god that changes with time =)

Yeah you are right on that one. He's still pretty much a jealous, abusive, criminally destructive ass.

your answer denotes your belief that God does exist! something change in your belief system?

Nope. I was replying to his comment. They descend, one on top of another, or you quote an out of sequence remark if you would like to address that specifically. Sorry if this arrangement was confusing to you. It creates a grand mosaic so to speak.

You are going to have to be specific for me to refute you . . . . where is QM not consistent with itself, or where has it changed?

He's wrong. The physics of the universe do not change. As Abracadabra pointed out it is only our understanding of it that changes. Why else would we build a large hadron collider if not to further our understanding of physics?

On the other hand we don't need to further our understanding of God because it's all written down in a 2000 year old book

Well thats not entirely true. There is always room to expand on our misinterpretations of the bible. If this religion forum has demonstrated nothing else, its this.

I really wanted him to explain what he meant, I have an idea, but would like an articulation.

Seems I might be asking too much when asking for a well reasoned argument that is falsifiable.

Jeremy

I have certainly had my mind opened to the weird and wonderful interpretations that everyone has. No two people see it quite the same and it is definitely a good thing to keep the mind open and hear everyone's point of view. I am reminded of school when we had to write an essay on Thomas Hardy's the Mayor of Casterbridge. As with any book not one person interpreted its characters and their motivations in the same way. At the end of the day it was just a book and you take whatever value from it that you want and leave what you don't want behind.

Right. Absolutely. Except in the case of the bible, Ive been trying to read it over the past 6 months and all I have is complaints and issues with it. Its a lot of baseless tall tales and its difficult to interpret. In fact at one point in the New Testament in Timothy (I think) it cautions us to "Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies." If we follow this advice we would ignore most of the Bible

It was better in the Neolithic era, when there was no reading at all and we didnt have all of these complaints and issues with the bible.

Or in the Draconian bizarro world. Because then there was less stoning also.

Regarding black holes...

Throughout mankind's history there have been many observations which have had mathematical and philosophical theories built around them. Hence, the existence of 'God'...

Empirical evidence for an a priori construct.

This, my friend is our way of understanding that which we do not know!

It is not surprising at all for one to find a mountain of evidence which has been built around a theory or concept which we may believe to be true.

It is merely because it has not been proven false...YET!

I claim that the space-time fabric which Einstein describes is not accurate. Space is not flat at any time! Therefore, we cannot use a one-dimensional vision to recreate a multi-dimensional actuality.

For the same reason that charges, the visible wavelengths, and any other oppositional forces cancel each other out, the space-time fabric would do the same in response to matter. Keeping this in mind, think of the rubber membrane analogy which has been used to describe space-time fabric. Should we picture a sun in the middle, as is often done to demonstrate the depression around it. This is what supposedly supports the fact that the earth's orbit is elliptical. Fair enough, I suppose... but...

I hold that a more accurate analogy would be to envision that one flat membrane not only being one, but rotate it on it's own axis. During the rotation, imagine at every movement there is another membrane, and another, and another,etc.

If one were to draw this, you would end up with what would resemble countless orbits around the center of the axis point. Countless membranes...

Now place a sun in the center!!!

All depressions would cancel each other out.

Just because I may not have a better explanation yet, does not make the generally accepted theory true.

The world was flat once too....

Know whatta mean?

Every other word in the bible has been taken literally so why not. You can start an entire religion based on that sentence. But if you did that then you would be giving heed to fables and endless genealogies.

There are still some snake handling churches not far from me. It might be interesting to attend one just to see. It amazes me how some can latch on to one small passage instead of the big picture and the even bigger picture outside of the book.

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. —Mark 16:17-18

Yeah I guess I am misinterpreting all of the brutality and injustice. I tend to be a person that takes things at face value be that for good or bad. Ive also gotten along just fine having absolutely no interest in the bible for 30 years. It has not effected my outlook on the world one iota and still hasnt except I am glad that people are not put to death anymore for merely challenging the word of the church or some faceless, formless, cruel creatrix who resides up in the clouds.

People aren't put to death any more because of religion but the persecution continues. I can't count the number of people who have suddenly changed their opinion of me when they find out about my total lack of belief in any religion. I'm a good person and they see that and like me for it. Inevitably I get asked what religion I am and when I answer with none, I do not believe in any I am then regarded as evil. I was asked last year, "What stops you from murdering people if you have no morals?" I do have morals, I know right from wrong, I just don't believe in any God or higher power. Some people cannot accept the possibility that I can still be a good person and not believe in a God. It was also a joke between me and another person at work that we had not got promoted because we did not go to the right church. It did seem for a while a few years ago that everyone getting the promotions where I worked attended the same church. Was there some truth in our joke or was it just coincidence?