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Topic: Throw down
Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Fri 08/08/08 04:47 PM
I'll go with lied. Just another empty threat from a false alien god. JB

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Fri 08/08/08 04:50 PM
wrong on all counts - JB, - the creation story is two fold the first 6 day setting is from gods view, the second from mans - adams view - we have already been through this. the other i let you hammer our with spider. Since the claim is that God wrote the Bible and the Bible is "God's word" then it should all be from God's view. Who is claiming that Adam wrote any of it? Please tell me where you came to that conclusion? JB misunderstanding JB, adam did not write it, supposedly moses did, but what i meant is that the first is a view of gods creativity, the second is from the perspective of what was going on in the world and especially in the garden of eden its not the original telling, it is after the fact of creation. seperate gen 1 from gen 2 and you will see this. Okay I will trust you on this one Tribo.

tribo Joined Mon 05/12/08 Posts: 5577	Fri 08/08/08 04:54 PM
wrong on all counts - JB, - the creation story is two fold the first 6 day setting is from gods view, the second from mans - adams view - we have already been through this. the other i let you hammer our with spider. Since the claim is that God wrote the Bible and the Bible is "God's word" then it should all be from God's view. Who is claiming that Adam wrote any of it? Please tell me where you came to that conclusion? JB misunderstanding JB, adam did not write it, supposedly moses did, but what i meant is that the first is a view of gods creativity, the second is from the perspective of what was going on in the world and especially in the garden of eden its not the original telling, it is after the fact of creation. seperate gen 1 from gen 2 and you will see this. Okay I will trust you on this one Tribo. hahaha - don't trust anyone goddess - i just mean if you really read it it wil become apparent - genisis is the hardest book to understand by far!! next is rrevelations. the rest varies. if all there was written was genisis and revalations the religion would be dead by now - hahaha

Abracadabra Joined Thu 04/12/07 Posts: 17851	Fri 08/08/08 04:57 PM Edited by Abracadabra on Fri 08/08/08 04:58 PM
I'll go with lied. Just another empty threat from a false alien god. JB It's actually considered poor parenting skills to make idle threats of punishment and then not carry them out. So this would make God a poor parent even if he did change his mind. Moreover, why would God actually want to write an example of an idle threat that he didn't carry through on? What message does that give? That we can trust God not to carry out his threats? We can look at the story of Adam and Eve and say, "Hey God never does what he says he's going to do anyway. If he didn't keep his threats to Adam and Eve then why should we believe he's going to keep any threats he makes to us?" If he had mercy on them, he'll probably have mercy on us. He's clearly one of the wussy parents who never carries out on his threats.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Fri 08/08/08 05:03 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Fri 08/08/08 05:04 PM
Perhaps God did not know that eating the fruit would not kill them. (Parish the thought of a non-all knowing God.) Perhaps God was like any other parent who says to their children things like this: Don't run with those sissors, you will surely fall and poke an eye out. Or Look both ways before crossing the street, or you will get run over by a car. Or If you don't get down from there right now you may fall and break your head open. Or If you don't stop smoking, you will surely die of lung cancer. JB

tribo Joined Mon 05/12/08 Posts: 5577	Fri 08/08/08 05:05 PM
GE 1:31 God was pleased with his creation. 31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. **************************** GE 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation.** (Note: That God should be displeased is inconsistent with the concept of omniscience.) 5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. funny he said it was >>very good<< and not "perfect", why make it just "very good" if he is capable of making everything "perfect"? 5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. T: that was after the fall, after man had sinned supposedly. cant count that. thats not a change in god but man if were talking strictly bible.

splendidlife Joined Fri 03/21/08 Posts: 1171	Fri 08/08/08 05:05 PM Edited by splendidlife on Fri 08/08/08 05:10 PM
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. This one reminds me of a debate that took place a while back. Someone was arguing that God lied to Adam and Eve telling them that they would surely die if they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil The argument from the non-believer was that they didn't die. The argument from the believer was that they did die eventually. The argument being that they would have never died had they not eaten the fruit. But that's not what the verse says,... It clearly says,... "for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" That means that they would die the same day they ate it. Clearly that didn't happen. This means that God lied when he threatened them that they would die in the day that they ate it. Either that or he changed his mind. Bingo! God either lies or changes his mind. There's no way out of that one. Perhaps Adam and Eve died metaphorically to their complete Heaven on Earth when they became self-conscious. Perhaps eating of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil marked the beginning of the Human Condition. A condition inherantly riddled with perception of good and bad.

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Fri 08/08/08 05:06 PM
The Pagans have kind of a different take on that whole "tree of knowledge incident". Their feeling is that story was very deliberately put in there to discredit woman and a much older faith. It does kind of make sense in a way. It was Eve that took fruit from the tree and tempted Adam with the knowledge. It would have been Eve naturally because she would have had no fear of the garden as it had always been her place prior to god being on the scene and being intimidating and scaring folks. The tale of the "serpent speaking to Eve" would have also been an attempt at discrediting the older earth based religion as the snake had been known as a symbol of the Goddess in many cultures. Pre-dynastic Egyptian queens were found mummified with snakes wrapped around their necks. So the best way to disvalue something is to associate it with evil or the devil. There ya go. Snakes are bad and so is Eve. I don’t know how true that is but an interesting take on it for certain.

tribo Joined Mon 05/12/08 Posts: 5577	Fri 08/08/08 05:08 PM
GE 2:15-17, 3:4-6 It is wrong to want to be able to tell good from evil. 15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. ************************************* HE 5:13-14 It is immature to be unable to tell good from evil.** 13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. no again your comparing before man disobeyed and knew no evil with later times when man did know evil.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Fri 08/08/08 05:09 PM
GE 1:31 God was pleased with his creation. 31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. **************************** GE 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation.** (Note: That God should be displeased is inconsistent with the concept of omniscience.) 5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. funny he said it was >>very good<< and not "perfect", why make it just "very good" if he is capable of making everything "perfect"? 5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. T: that was after the fall, after man had sinned supposedly. cant count that. thats not a change in god but man if were talking strictly bible. But he failed. His creation Man was not "good" after all. Therefore God is not perfect. BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD PEOPLE!

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Fri 08/08/08 05:12 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Fri 08/08/08 05:14 PM
GE 2:15-17, 3:4-6 It is wrong to want to be able to tell good from evil. 15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. ************************************* HE 5:13-14 It is immature to be unable to tell good from evil.** 13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. no again your comparing before man disobeyed and knew no evil with later times when man did know evil. You can't resist can you Tribo? Here the verse says that man used their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. It says nothing about any forbidden fruit that gave them that power. Now they are discerning good from evil by using their senses. Do you suppose the forbidden fruit had anything to do with increasing the senses? Or did mankind simply learn over time to increase their senses and discern good from evil, and if so, what did they need with any forbidden fruit? JB

tribo Joined Mon 05/12/08 Posts: 5577	Fri 08/08/08 05:17 PM
GE 10:5, 20, 31 There were many languages before the Tower of Babel. 5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations. ********************** GE 11:1 There was only one language before the Tower of Babel.** Genesis 11 1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. NOW THAT ONES UP FOR DEBATE!!!

splendidlife Joined Fri 03/21/08 Posts: 1171	Fri 08/08/08 05:17 PM
GE 2:15-17, 3:4-6 It is wrong to want to be able to tell good from evil. 15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. ************************************* HE 5:13-14 It is immature to be unable to tell good from evil.** 13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. no again your comparing before man disobeyed and knew no evil with later times when man did know evil. You can't resist can you Tribo? Here the verse says that man used their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. It says nothing about any forbidden fruit that gave them that power. Now they are discerning good from evil by using their senses. Do you suppose the forbidden fruit had anything to do with increasing the senses? Or did mankind simply learn over time to increase their senses and discern good from evil, and if so, what did they need with any forbidden fruit? JB Eating of the forbidden fruit was a metaphor for a shift into self-consciousness...

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Fri 08/08/08 05:19 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Fri 08/08/08 05:19 PM
The Pagans have kind of a different take on that whole "tree of knowledge incident". Their feeling is that story was very deliberately put in there to discredit woman and a much older faith. It does kind of make sense in a way. It was Eve that took fruit from the tree and tempted Adam with the knowledge. It would have been Eve naturally because she would have had no fear of the garden as it had always been her place prior to god being on the scene and being intimidating and scaring folks. The tale of the "serpent speaking to Eve" would have also been an attempt at discrediting the older earth based religion as the snake had been known as a symbol of the Goddess in many cultures. Pre-dynastic Egyptian queens were found mummified with snakes wrapped around their necks. So the best way to disvalue something is to associate it with evil or the devil. There ya go. Snakes are bad and so is Eve. I don’t know how true that is but an interesting take on it for certain. "the snake had been known as a symbol of the Goddess in many cultures.. The snake is a symbol of the reptilian races, particularly the Draconians who are ruled by a Queen and is a female dominated society where men are subservient to women, so the snake could well have been a symbol of the Goddess of this galaxy who is known as the Draconian Queen and worshiped. JB

tribo Joined Mon 05/12/08 Posts: 5577	Fri 08/08/08 05:20 PM
GE 1:31 God was pleased with his creation. 31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. **************************** GE 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation.** (Note: That God should be displeased is inconsistent with the concept of omniscience.) 5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. funny he said it was >>very good<< and not "perfect", why make it just "very good" if he is capable of making everything "perfect"? 5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. T: that was after the fall, after man had sinned supposedly. cant count that. thats not a change in god but man if were talking strictly bible. But he failed. His creation Man was not "good" after all. Therefore God is not perfect. BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD PEOPLE! Hey, i didn't write it - hahaha

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Fri 08/08/08 05:24 PM
The Pagans have kind of a different take on that whole "tree of knowledge incident". Their feeling is that story was very deliberately put in there to discredit woman and a much older faith. It does kind of make sense in a way. It was Eve that took fruit from the tree and tempted Adam with the knowledge. It would have been Eve naturally because she would have had no fear of the garden as it had always been her place prior to god being on the scene and being intimidating and scaring folks. The tale of the "serpent speaking to Eve" would have also been an attempt at discrediting the older earth based religion as the snake had been known as a symbol of the Goddess in many cultures. Pre-dynastic Egyptian queens were found mummified with snakes wrapped around their necks. So the best way to disvalue something is to associate it with evil or the devil. There ya go. Snakes are bad and so is Eve. I don’t know how true that is but an interesting take on it for certain. "the snake had been known as a symbol of the Goddess in many cultures.. The snake is a symbol of the reptilian races, particularly the Draconians who are ruled by a Queen and is a female dominated society where men are subservient to women, so the snake could well have been a symbol of the Goddess of this galaxy who is known as the Draconian Queen and worshiped. JB Works for me. I think to be fair though, the serpent has also represented men over the ages as a phalic symbol? That I dont know. Would be some fun research I guess.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Fri 08/08/08 05:26 PM
Eating of the forbidden fruit was a metaphor for a shift into self-consciousness... If that were true, then how or why would a God forbid someone from "shifting their consciousness" and how can the act of shifting into self-consciousness be a danger that would bring on death that would require a warning or law from God? JB

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Fri 08/08/08 05:29 PM
The Pagans have kind of a different take on that whole "tree of knowledge incident". Their feeling is that story was very deliberately put in there to discredit woman and a much older faith. It does kind of make sense in a way. It was Eve that took fruit from the tree and tempted Adam with the knowledge. It would have been Eve naturally because she would have had no fear of the garden as it had always been her place prior to god being on the scene and being intimidating and scaring folks. The tale of the "serpent speaking to Eve" would have also been an attempt at discrediting the older earth based religion as the snake had been known as a symbol of the Goddess in many cultures. Pre-dynastic Egyptian queens were found mummified with snakes wrapped around their necks. So the best way to disvalue something is to associate it with evil or the devil. There ya go. Snakes are bad and so is Eve. I don’t know how true that is but an interesting take on it for certain. "the snake had been known as a symbol of the Goddess in many cultures.. The snake is a symbol of the reptilian races, particularly the Draconians who are ruled by a Queen and is a female dominated society where men are subservient to women, so the snake could well have been a symbol of the Goddess of this galaxy who is known as the Draconian Queen and worshiped. JB Works for me. I think to be fair though, the serpent has also represented men over the ages as a phalic symbol? That I dont know. Would be some fun research I guess. Could be. But the phalic symbol in this world is mostly represented by the oblique. (The Washington Monument is an oblique.) You will see the oblique throughout history. It represents the cult that worships the male dominated society. Christianity is a male dominated cult that suppresses the female and they use the Oblique to represent them. The Dome represents the female dominated cults who worship the female. JB

tribo Joined Mon 05/12/08 Posts: 5577	Fri 08/08/08 05:30 PM
GE 2:15-17, 3:4-6 It is wrong to want to be able to tell good from evil. 15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. ************************************* HE 5:13-14 It is immature to be unable to tell good from evil.** 13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. no again your comparing before man disobeyed and knew no evil with later times when man did know evil. You can't resist can you Tribo? Here the verse says that man used their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. It says nothing about any forbidden fruit that gave them that power. Now they are discerning good from evil by using their senses. Do you suppose the forbidden fruit had anything to do with increasing the senses? Or did mankind simply learn over time to increase their senses and discern good from evil, and if so, what did they need with any forbidden fruit? JB Ok JB, as well as i can remember this is the christian take on this - 2 points - one - they died in the sense of spirituality, they had lost there spiritual life and became soulish in nature, this is the death reffered to not the death of the body - im sure ill here from spider or some one on this. IF - they had not eaten then they would not have known evil and supposedly WE would not have either and again supposedly we would all have lived along time (both spiritually and physically) and even maybe be allowed to eat of the tree of eternal life. which man put a stop to by sinning. 2) later man already knew evil so what paul is saying is the christians need to "discern" this evil by dilligently immersing themselves in prayer and the word/bible

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Fri 08/08/08 05:33 PM
I think you are right on that. I will look online to see if the snake is specifically mentioned in any culture as pertaining to male but I think mainly its associated with female/Goddess. It was also NEVER thought to be evil or symbolic of the devil until Christianity MUCH later in history linked the two. That to me is highly suspect. Even more so if the snake is recurring in goddess symbolism.