Absolutely.

In fact, it's actually against the tenets of Christianity to do what Spider constantly does. He continues to try to claim that he has the correct interpretations of the Bible.

That's a no-no according to Christiainity.

Only the Holy Spirit can speak for God.

The only thing that any TRUE Christian could possibly do is suggest to someone that they might try reading the Bible.

If the have read the Bible and the Holy Spirit didn't speak to them then so be it. That was the choice of the Holy Spirit obviously.

Actually, Spider's claim to know what the scriptures mean for everone is a totally anti-Christian act.

He's going against Christianity when he does this. He's taking their doctrine and applying his own rules to it.

The rules of Protestant Christianity say that only the Holy Spirit can speak for God. No popes, paper or flesh can do this.

That's a basic tenet of Protestant Christianity.

So in truth Spider can't even claim to be a "Christian" because he refuses to follow the creed of that religion. He's not even an ordained minister.

He's not allowed to claim what the scriptures mean. He can only read them for himself and offer others to read them for themselves. That's true "Christianity" according to their own creed.

He's violating the tenets of the very religion that he claims to speak for.

LOL...doesn't it just anger you that there are many here who can testify from EXPERIENCE the love & existance of God. heheheh You people are hysterical!!!!

They probably have a lot of reasons to not understand him and be apprehensive Abra. I don’t want to join in with the Christian argument that seems to feel speculation and conjecture can be utilized in place of reason. Because you want/need for it to follow your belief structure, does not make it so, no matter how much you whine nor insult. So I don’t know and fully admit to that because we are looking at an ancient text written by humans. I don’t know except some of his teachings are a little bit odd and he is a little strange himself. He changes on a dime; he now wants women giving birth to atone for this sin. He doesn’t really explain any of this either. Oh but we are getting to the good parts I think.

when i first got introduced into Christianity i was given a card that said MASTERCARD - and had the 4 spiritual laws printed on the back - it was a direct take off of the MasterCard credit card stating on the front - "put Christ in "charge" of you life. Well i read the 4 spiritual laws, accepted that Jesus was the on of god, that he died and rose and through his act had taken away my sins, i said the sinners prayer, and was told to not doubt what had happened not to go on what i was feeling but on the fact that because i was sorry and asked Jesus into my heart the i was saved - what i now know as "easy believism" after learning all i did in the next few years, i did not ever go door to door to try to get people to get saved or come to the church i was attending, yet once in awhile in my music ministry, someone would approach me and ask about Jesus and god, i knew then if that were to happen i would not pull out some MasterCard and tell them to read it with me and follow the prompts on the back side, what i told them to do is what i felt was the fair and obvious thing all Christians should do - lead them to the word - i would tell them to read the 4 gospels and anything else Christ said first - understand that this was not just some free trip to heaven that Jesus out of love was demanding your life in return!! you were not just accepting him as your savior, but as your LORD, and that as your lord he was demanding your life in return for the free gift of grace - they were told to "count the cost" before going forward for once you entered their was no turning back, you would have to , in time, give up your fleshly life for a new spiritual life, habits that took away from your witness had to go whatever they may be. it was a meant harsh look at what was reality into the kingdom of Christianity and the book.

now why am i telling this? - because you here are trying to save people with easy believism let god do the work - your responsibility is to lead them to the book and let the spirit do the work of conversion. do not continue to do as was done with me, or it will not stick!

My take on Exodus 20:5

that word for hate there is better translated in today's vernacular as despise or ignore.

Visiting the iniquity means sympathizing with it, not incurrung wrath on them.

But then, few there be that will really try to understand what has been written and feel it first and foremost.

I am not trying to be argumentative, but this passage has been one of great interest to me many years ago. In studying it and others that superficially contracdict one another I have m= found innumerable instances where the colloquials of every language and translation of each contemporary period have their nuances that do not remain fluidly equal.

Like "charity" of the 1600s.,.. it means love today, more aptly put, but it means compassion and sympathy to the greek tongue. 1Corinthians 13.

and the greek work expresses a breathed form of moving compassion. one of action. doing, not basking.


Similarly, 'visiting iniquities' is a sympathetic description. Empathy, perhaps, not disgust and contempt and retribution.

That is how I have come to understand that passage.




a p.s.


when Jesus said, let the dead bury the dead, comee follow me, it can be viewed as a sympathetic gesture to the man he said it to. A dead end, spiritually, is not to be the path of one honoring one's mother and father in spirit and truth at the expense of one's own soul.

Paul taught this way as well.

Jesus also said that those that do not put him first above family and friends are not worthy of him. It is not a hateful jealousy being expressed, but a liberty being offered.

Jesus also said that those that follow him are not without honor except in their own household. Now I would take that to mean that as a saying to his contemporaries, following him would be like following anti-fsamilial traditions and dishonor the family name and reputation. But if the legalism of the tradition is hardened against God, then what value is the tradition if it isn't upheld lawfully. You see, many did follow Jesus at that time. So much so, that h often disappeared to where he was not known yet. He was seeking to set peole free and if they knew to seek him out, that was close enough. LOL So off he would go. elsewhere. No lingering. LOL

yeah, yeah, that's a stretch.

Or is it?

You are the one who is hysterical Quick. Are you making the claim that only your small clan of Christian friends have had a personal "God" experiences?

And if you are a true loving Christian why would you laugh at the thought that someone might be "angry" because someone else claims to have experienced the existence of God?

If any of the good Christians on this club have had what they believe is a personal spiritual or Godly experience I am very happy for them.

I have had similar experiences. God does not play favorites, and Christianity does not own God. They just claim they do.

JB

A credit card Tribo? A Master? Oh god, that’s horribly tacky. I do agree with you though that people with egos like (insert name here) who claim to speak for god or have his ear in some respect are just bound to turn others away. The exact opposite of the effect on potential "recruits" that they are instructed to have I would assume. JB also made a good point.

Truly.

When someone laughs because they think they have God and another person doesn't it's cyrstal clear who's lacking God.

That is kind of a mean spirited and abusive stance to take. I would go a step further and allow people to embrace the spirituality of their choosing as you have done. Whats the harm? Or are you as jealous as your own god?

The only mean spiritedness are those who rebell against God.

You can point fingers all you want but I think your 'attempts" at "God" are hysterical. God said He would choose the foolish things to confound the wisdom of the wise.

There is a BIG difference between people who want to gain knowledge & understanding & those who want to impose their twisted views of truth on people.

Thank God that there are many here who will only let your dillusions go so far before they blast your nonsensical views right out of the water with truth.

WWJD? He would let you know what a brood of vipers you are. He'd send you running right out of the room. His compassion wasn't wasted on people who were too proud to believe His good works or rebelled against His will & His words.

No, not at all Q, i hope you continue to have a most wonderful expierience with jesus all of you.
i just don't understand what you hope to accomplish here in debates with non-believers? i keep saying it will do no good nor change anyones mind and yet it continues - is this of your god, or of you here? Tell you what, hows this - any new searchers looking for christian beliefs and holdings will be sent to the CC house to ask their questions, and if any come there and dont like what they hear, you can send them back ok?

I really get no pleasure throwing stuff back and forth at each other, ive said it many times already, even in this post. so let it go, prove your points to someone searching for biblical answers, i dont care if i ever here another christian answer for me, i know where to look if i want answers, i don't need to hear them here.

really - don't you and spider and eljay, and all the rest think enoughs enough?

i can be sarcastic till the cows come home, it will do me nor you guys no good.

how bout it - truce? game over? no winners? no reason for it to begin with? huh?

Well those that dont just buy into all this or allow blind faith to talk for them are still waiting for this alleged "blasting out of the water to occur"....snore. Any day now folks. That is, if you can manage to lay off the hostile insults and attacks on people's faiths. Some of which you dont even know what they are. Take it down a notch or 10 already.....Does your god teach you to be so mean, jealous and paranoid/delusional? Well seeing as the scripture seems to indicate that, do you just follow that lead automatically because its "writen" by human men?

Tribo, spider started it. He just wasn't expecting it to backfire on him which such force. I guess anyway.

Q.S.

I think you should back off with your nasty poison pen... er keyboard.. Quick. You are making yourself look bad and you are not representing Christians or speaking for God.

Edited:
I rebel against what I believe are plagiarized forged scripture and paper popes who think they have all the answers, not "against God." Saying that we rebel against God just because we don't buy the lie of religious dogma is proof that you think you own God because you call yourself a Christian and go to church.

God is for everyone. We express our views, we don't impose them on people like the current religious establishment who still thinks they should have Christian prayer in schools.

You can't possibly blast our view out of the water with your irrational beliefs and plagiarized Bible myths. You are free to believe what you wish, as are we.

WWJD? I don't think you have a clue. You can imagine anything you like though.

JB

P.S. I do not judge Christians in general by what I hear coming from you. I feel that you lack love and lack faith and possibly lack compassion. I apologize if the truth hurts.

Tribo, spider started it.


hahaha now that sounds like my grandson when hes gotten into trouble with his playmates

no offense K, it just struck me funny

i know spider started it and i know only spider can call it quits, so lets see if he does, lets see if his pride can be overcome and just let this thread die. it does not mean you cant still ask questions of him or ferral, or any of the others - i know your looking or searching for answers and thats fine, i'm not concerned with that. i just think its foolish t continue the arguement, it leads nowhere, but if you all want to i cannot stop it.

i also wonder if any here know that CatchMe - has a post up looking for prayers for karma's mom who's in the hospital, it might be more rewarding to go and pray there than argue here, dontcha think - ferral and MS, are already there as well as me and JB, everyones spiritual take is needed not just those who are christians!!

so maybe take a break for a minute or two and go where help is needed. It's much more important than argueing - dontcha think?

It's catches post on karma and baby girl on the religious thread. ok? Karma's a young guy and a good guy, help please. He'd do the same for you.

QS Wrote:



Are all those who question one's view perceived as "too proud" and rebellious? Those with questions must handle the wording of their posts w/ kid gloves, so as not to rattle the cages of those with unshakable convictions?

Might I suggest that "pride" is exactly the place from which these very judgments come?

It's this very idea that if someone doesn't believe in a particular religion they are rejecting God that makes these religions detrimental to humanity.

Clearly, if God is supposed to be a loving fatherly figure he would make it prefectly clear to all his children precisely which religion they should extol.

It's obvious that the religions from the Mediterranean region aren't clear. The Jews, Muslims, Catholics and Protestests are all at odds with each other. Yet they are supposed to all virtually be messages from the same heavenly father.

A father who wouldn't step in to correct misunderstandings is no fatherly image at all.

It can't be this way.

It flies in the face of what a "Fatherly" God should be like.

I don't reject my creator, and I'm certain that Muslims, and Jews don't either.

That's foolish to even suggest such a thing.

And let's not forget about the whole rest of the world, Buddhists, Hindus, Wicca, etc.

Clearly for Christianity to be true all of those people would need to know that they are making a conscious choice to deny their true creator in favor of following fraudulent philosophies.

Otherwise they would be totally innocent and could not be held accountable for having done something that they have no reason to believe was wrong.

I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe that the biblical picture is correct. On the contrary have have a myriad of reasons to believe that it has to be false.

Anyone who suggests that I'm 'rebelling' against God is totally clueless. That's clearly not what's happening.

Yet it is those kinds of accusations that pit man against man. And this is especially true when the people involved are from those same (yet different) Mediterranean religions.

No greater hostility exist on the entire earth than between Jews and Muslims, and that could also be said about Christians and Muslims in many cases.

We even see Catholics and Protestants killing each other in Europe. So even if the whole planet became "Christian" that would only be the beginning of the real Holy Wars.

And you expect me to believe that that religion is from God?

i also wonder if any here know that CatchMe - has a post up looking for prayers for karma's mom who's in the hospital, it might be more rewarding to go and pray there than argue here, dontcha think - ferral and MS, are already there as well as me and JB, everyones spiritual take is needed not just those who are christians!!

so maybe take a break for a minute or two and go where help is needed. It's much more important than argueing - dontcha think?

It's catches post on karma and baby girl on the religious thread. ok? Karma's a young guy and a good guy, help please. He'd do the same for you.

i also wonder if any here know that CatchMe - has a post up looking for prayers for karma's mom who's in the hospital, it might be more rewarding to go and pray there than argue here, dontcha think - ferral and MS, are already there as well as me and JB, everyones spiritual take is needed not just those who are christians!!

so maybe take a break for a minute or two and go where help is needed. It's much more important than argueing - dontcha think?

It's catches post on karma and baby girl on the religious thread. ok? Karma's a young guy and a good guy, help please. He'd do the same for you.