Topic: Imagination creates Religions | |
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According to an anthropologist at the London School of Economics, the very process that John Lennon suggested we use to put religion and other human institutions out our minds might very well be the reason we have religion to begin with.
Imagination, says Maurice Bloch [New Scientist], is what sets humans apart from other animal species. Unlike even our closest relatives, chimpanzees, humans have the unique ability to imagine things that do not exist. It seems like common sense when you think about it: art, theater, cinema, music, and language it self are each derived from the human imagination. The suggestion that religion is a product of human imagination isn’t necessarily a new one. Modern popularizers of the atheist movement have suggested as links to religion and imagination, though perhaps not as explicit as Bloch. Daniel Dennett, in Breaking The Spell, tells us that language makes it possible for us to, “remind ourselves of things not currently present to our senses, to dwell on topics that would otherwise be elusive” as we consider our ancestors or other absent and dead people. This is what Bloch refers to as the “transcendental social,” comprised of a group with members one may have never met (clan members, ancestors, gods, deities, etc.). Richard Dawkins, in The God Delusion, writes, “[c]onstructing models is something the human brain is very good at. When we are asleep it is called dreaming; when we are awake we call it imagination [...]“ V.S. Rmachandran, a prominent neuroscientist, describes many ways in which the human brain uses imagination to cope with damage to cognitive abilities of the brain after traumas or injuries. He includes an entire chapter on a syndrome known as anasognosia in which patients who suffer from strokes or brain injuries that result in paralysis of a limb construct elaborate and imaginative denials of their paralysis to the point that they actually believe an otherwise paralyzed arm is perfectly normal and sometimes even stronger than the non-paralyzed arm! Perhaps the same neurological and cognitive functions that inspired the pages of Rama’s Phantoms in the Brain are related to the neural architecture Bloch believes was developed in humans some 40-50,000 years ago. This is the period of the Upper Palaeological Revolution in which lithic technologies and art “suddenly exploded in sophistication” and where funerary artifacts, rock and cave paintings begin, and stone tools take on new styles that allow for more advanced and diverse uses. In my studies of the Neanderthal to human switch in Europe, where the dominant species of residence changed from Neanderthals to humans, I’ve often considered that it may have been the willingness of humans to believe and imagine which gave them a competitive edge over Neanderthals. If Neanderthals had a diminished capacity to utilize their imaginations, they would have been less likely to develop or adapt to changing climates or environments. They would have been less likely to migrate and spread out except to put space between rival clans or groups. Humans, on the other hand, are naturally curious and imagine every sort of possibility, giving rise to in-groups and out-groups and a natural drive to explore and migrate, perhaps seeking “the good life” in the next valley, and quickly adapting to conditions ranging from desert to arctic using their imaginaitions. Given that humanity has had thousands of gods and religions in recorded history alone, it isn’t hard at all to imagine that they are each the result of, well, imagination. Books mentioned: Dawkins, Richard (2006). The God Delusion. London: Bantam. Dennett, D. C. (2006). Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon. London: Viking. Ramachandran, V., and Sandra Blakeslee, (1998). Phantoms in the Brain: Probing the Mysteries of the Human Mind. New York: Morrow |
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Imagination opens doors to many directions.........
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TBIM!
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Don't you just hate it when you get people who come knocking on your door pushing one faith or another? I regard this sort of writing in the same way. What is the point of your attacks on people with faith?
Are you trying to convince people that they are wrong to have a faith? It won't work because just as people slam the door in the faces on those knocking, no person of faith is going to be "converted" to your way of thinking. I find your constant "common sense" tirades against people of faith to be self-serving and full of prejudice and intolerance. What drives you in your attempt to prove people of faith wrong? You may think and make your arguements in logical, scientific, common sense terms, but faith defies of all these and all of what you think. Bottom line is you cannot prove to anyone of faith that they are wrong. Given that, I have a hard time seeing the point you are trying to make. Perhaps you'll feel pleased that you have found the answer to your own (limited) existence. Perhaps now you are spreading your own new found "faith". What comes after the posts, knocking on doors to spread your "word"? If you are so much against faith, why not petition the site to have your own topic. Perhaps you could call it an "Anti-religion". In it all non-religious people, like yourself, can spew out all the ridicule, hatred and predjudice against religious people to your heart's content. |
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Why do you suppose the Bible says, "The fool has said in his heart 'There is no God'"
Perhaps it is because the evidence of a creator is spoken by every leaf and flower. Even Darwin admitted fear of God in his reference to the mathematical intricacy of the human eye. Believe what you will but all the disbelief in God you can muster will not make His laws change or make Him disappear. There will be a day when every knee will bow. |
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Edited by
smiless
on
Mon 07/21/08 11:23 AM
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Don't you just hate it when you get people who come knocking on your door pushing one faith or another? I regard this sort of writing in the same way. What is the point of your attacks on people with faith? Are you trying to convince people that they are wrong to have a faith? It won't work because just as people slam the door in the faces on those knocking, no person of faith is going to be "converted" to your way of thinking. I find your constant "common sense" tirades against people of faith to be self-serving and full of prejudice and intolerance. What drives you in your attempt to prove people of faith wrong? You may think and make your arguements in logical, scientific, common sense terms, but faith defies of all these and all of what you think. Bottom line is you cannot prove to anyone of faith that they are wrong. Given that, I have a hard time seeing the point you are trying to make. Perhaps you'll feel pleased that you have found the answer to your own (limited) existence. Perhaps now you are spreading your own new found "faith". What comes after the posts, knocking on doors to spread your "word"? If you are so much against faith, why not petition the site to have your own topic. Perhaps you could call it an "Anti-religion". In it all non-religious people, like yourself, can spew out all the ridicule, hatred and predjudice against religious people to your heart's content. I am not trying to convert anyone or tell them not to have faith. I am merely sharing an opinion. You interpereted this article as hate as others interpet it as a interesting and logical. I have nothing against faith. There are many who are non religious but have faith. They just don't follow religious doctrines to have faith and you surely judge me for a atheist without even knowing me. Perhaps "assuming" is something you need to stop doing as it is the number one cause of wars in today's societies. Those who know me know that I don't have a single ounce of hatred, prejudice against religous people. I always mention to everyone "Follow your Bliss" meaning believe in what you want and if it helps you wake up in the morning happy then that is what counts as long as you didn't hurt another in the process. If anyone is showing hatred at the moment then it surely is you. Yet don't worry I don't hold that against you. |
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Why do you suppose the Bible says, "The fool has said in his heart 'There is no God'" Perhaps it is because the evidence of a creator is spoken by every leaf and flower. Even Darwin admitted fear of God in his reference to the mathematical intricacy of the human eye. Believe what you will but all the disbelief in God you can muster will not make His laws change or make Him disappear. There will be a day when every knee will bow. Yes, yes sounds very logical. To fear God or to fear of a God. Well I surely hope he can change your mind not to fear him as I would like him to give you a feeling of comfort and not fear when you see him. and if he doesn't exist then what? What point did you make with everyone?? I guess you made no point but to tell everyone to fear him because you read it in a book. but again follow your bliss. If it sheds a smile on your face and makes you strong each day then keep believing in what you think is appropiate in your views. |
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Off to Imagination Land!
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Don't you just hate it when you get people who come knocking on your door pushing one faith or another? I regard this sort of writing in the same way. What is the point of your attacks on people with faith? Are you trying to convince people that they are wrong to have a faith? It won't work because just as people slam the door in the faces on those knocking, no person of faith is going to be "converted" to your way of thinking. I find your constant "common sense" tirades against people of faith to be self-serving and full of prejudice and intolerance. What drives you in your attempt to prove people of faith wrong? You may think and make your arguements in logical, scientific, common sense terms, but faith defies of all these and all of what you think. Bottom line is you cannot prove to anyone of faith that they are wrong. Given that, I have a hard time seeing the point you are trying to make. Perhaps you'll feel pleased that you have found the answer to your own (limited) existence. Perhaps now you are spreading your own new found "faith". What comes after the posts, knocking on doors to spread your "word"? If you are so much against faith, why not petition the site to have your own topic. Perhaps you could call it an "Anti-religion". In it all non-religious people, like yourself, can spew out all the ridicule, hatred and predjudice against religious people to your heart's content. I am not trying to convert anyone or tell them not to have faith. I am merely sharing an opinion. You interpereted this article as hate as others interpet it as a interesting and logical. I have nothing against faith. There are many who are non religious but have faith. They just don't follow religious doctrines to have faith and you surely judge me for a atheist without even knowing me. Perhaps "assuming" is something you need to stop doing as it is the number one cause of wars in today's societies. Those who know me know that I don't have a single ounce of hatred, prejudice against religous people. I always mention to everyone "Follow your Bliss" meaning believe in what you want and if it helps you wake up in the morning happy then that is what counts as long as you didn't hurt another in the process. If anyone is showing hatred at the moment then it surely is you. Yet don't worry I don't hold that against you. Why is it that so often when one cannot find the words to explain away their own hate, prejudices, etc., they have to fall back to accusing the person who calls the person to task with the very same thing. I am glad that you don't hold "hate" against me as I hate no one. I do, however, find people who pointlessly rant and rave against faith and religion offensive. That I "hate" others is a product of your own "imagination"! As I suggested why not start a new Topic called "Anti-Religion"? You could communicate your ideas without offending people of faith and religion. It's something you should really think about. But then, in a Topic such as that, you wouldn't have the audience you seek to ridicule, people of religion. No self-satisfying fun for you there! |
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My opinion: Religion was created to explain why, what, where, and how things happened...then later and up to now used to control...and I think this thread is fine where it is
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Edited by
smiless
on
Mon 07/21/08 01:27 PM
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Don't you just hate it when you get people who come knocking on your door pushing one faith or another? I regard this sort of writing in the same way. What is the point of your attacks on people with faith? Are you trying to convince people that they are wrong to have a faith? It won't work because just as people slam the door in the faces on those knocking, no person of faith is going to be "converted" to your way of thinking. I find your constant "common sense" tirades against people of faith to be self-serving and full of prejudice and intolerance. What drives you in your attempt to prove people of faith wrong? You may think and make your arguements in logical, scientific, common sense terms, but faith defies of all these and all of what you think. Bottom line is you cannot prove to anyone of faith that they are wrong. Given that, I have a hard time seeing the point you are trying to make. Perhaps you'll feel pleased that you have found the answer to your own (limited) existence. Perhaps now you are spreading your own new found "faith". What comes after the posts, knocking on doors to spread your "word"? If you are so much against faith, why not petition the site to have your own topic. Perhaps you could call it an "Anti-religion". In it all non-religious people, like yourself, can spew out all the ridicule, hatred and predjudice against religious people to your heart's content. I am not trying to convert anyone or tell them not to have faith. I am merely sharing an opinion. You interpereted this article as hate as others interpet it as a interesting and logical. I have nothing against faith. There are many who are non religious but have faith. They just don't follow religious doctrines to have faith and you surely judge me for a atheist without even knowing me. Perhaps "assuming" is something you need to stop doing as it is the number one cause of wars in today's societies. Those who know me know that I don't have a single ounce of hatred, prejudice against religous people. I always mention to everyone "Follow your Bliss" meaning believe in what you want and if it helps you wake up in the morning happy then that is what counts as long as you didn't hurt another in the process. If anyone is showing hatred at the moment then it surely is you. Yet don't worry I don't hold that against you. Why is it that so often when one cannot find the words to explain away their own hate, prejudices, etc., they have to fall back to accusing the person who calls the person to task with the very same thing. I am glad that you don't hold "hate" against me as I hate no one. I do, however, find people who pointlessly rant and rave against faith and religion offensive. That I "hate" others is a product of your own "imagination"! As I suggested why not start a new Topic called "Anti-Religion"? You could communicate your ideas without offending people of faith and religion. It's something you should really think about. But then, in a Topic such as that, you wouldn't have the audience you seek to ridicule, people of religion. No self-satisfying fun for you there! Well you mentioned "hate" first so I know that you started the subject about "hate". If anything I started a debate which is entitled for religous and non religious people to give their opinions. In other words many believe religion is nothing more then man made imaginations. Then there are some who actually believe it is the spoken words of "God" himself. What seems to be the problem is you think I am ranting on religous people. I feel that an atheist, agnostic, non religous spiritual person can provide their opinions in a religious forum without having to quote "anti religion" first as a warning to those who are religious. Everyone is entitled to share their feelings, faiths, and opinions. The article indicates opinions of researchers who looked for deeper reasons as to "why" and gave their opinions. What is wrong with that? Many of the smartest people in the world question if religion is nothing more then imagination. Some believe it is two different things. Others believe that it is the same and many more do not give an answer. I am sorry but I will not do what you please in posting a warning sign for religous people to not read an article I choose to post. If you don't like it then don't read it and don't even bother to comment on it. You would have saved the burden. Those who use faith and religion for their personal belief systems don't need to feel justified to explain why they feel so, so why are you taking such a article to heart? Just move on as I would do when I find the subject mundane. I am sorry if you don't like the hard questions atheists or agnostics ask and no I am not trying to change the world. I am looking for a deeper understanding. ******************* You say: Why is it that so often when one cannot find the words to explain away their own hate, prejudices, etc., they have to fall back to accusing the person who calls the person to task with the very same thing. answer: The article shows no prejudice or hate. You misinterpet the article clearly. You say: I am glad that you don't hold "hate" against me as I hate no one. I do, however, find people who pointlessly rant and rave against faith and religion offensive. That I "hate" others is a product of your own "imagination"! answer: I never indicating "hate" at all in the article or afterwards. If anyone talks about hate then it would be you who started it. Now this topic maybe pointless to you, but for many they would like to talk about it and even find it interesting enough to elaborate on it. You say: As I suggested why not start a new Topic called "Anti-Religion"? You could communicate your ideas without offending people of faith and religion. It's something you should really think about. But then, in a Topic such as that, you wouldn't have the audience you seek to ridicule, people of religion. No self-satisfying fun for you there! answer: I laugh at the notion of what you "assume" you think you know of me and how my thoughts work. I would really take a deeper look into yourself and ask why you are so offended. It truly cannot be because of this article that makes you feel so. but again perhaps you live in a society that usually ridicules atheists or agnostics who don't have the same idealogy. Thank goodness we live in the 21st century! In the long run accept it that not everyone will be on the same page as you will be as I am sure many will not agree with me. You will have to figure out a way to deal with it as many atheists, non religous people will continue to post their thoughts on a religous forum without labeling a warning sign for religious people not to read. by the way my article was meant for everyone to read. I don't label who should read it or not. Why should I? |
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There will be a day when every knee will bow. Why should that be important to a creator? Why should we believe that a creator should have an ego? This whole idea of an egotistical God makes no sense to me. Just sounds like we're trying to push man's frailties onto God. These are the notions of earthly mortal Kinds who's power stems from being recognized as the rule. Do you honestly believe that God would need recognition? That's a human frailty. |
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Edited by
Belushi
on
Mon 07/21/08 01:19 PM
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The word "hate" is used far more by the christian majority, than the non-believer minority on here.
- except to refute the fact we dont hate you because you have imaginary friends ... oooh look, a link to the topic! |
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The word "hate" is used far more by the christian majority, than the non-believer minority on here. - except to refute the fact we dont hate you because you have imaginary friends ... oooh look, a link to the topic! I am sure you heard of the English Children's Author Beatrix Potter. She use to talk to her illustrations of various animals and believe they actually existed. Well today she is consider one of the highest selling children authors of all time. It is good to imagine and very rewarding also |
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The word "hate" is used far more by the christian majority, than the non-believer minority on here. - except to refute the fact we dont hate you because you have imaginary friends ... oooh look, a link to the topic! I am sure you heard of the English Children's Author Beatrix Potter. She use to talk to her illustrations of various animals and believe they actually existed. Well today she is consider one of the highest selling children authors of all time. It is good to imagine and very rewarding also I agree ... there is a lot of imagining going on here ... I imagine there are fairies at the bottom of the garden ... that does only happen when I have at least two bottles of Egyptian wine inside me though!!! |
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There will be a day when every knee will bow. Why should that be important to a creator? Why should we believe that a creator should have an ego? This whole idea of an egotistical God makes no sense to me. Just sounds like we're trying to push man's frailties onto God. These are the notions of earthly mortal Kinds who's power stems from being recognized as the rule. Do you honestly believe that God would need recognition? That's a human frailty. They are all so afraid that if god doesnt see them being so good, he/she/it might not put their name on the list and they wont get in through the pearly gates. |
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The word "hate" is used far more by the christian majority, than the non-believer minority on here. - except to refute the fact we dont hate you because you have imaginary friends ... oooh look, a link to the topic! I am sure you heard of the English Children's Author Beatrix Potter. She use to talk to her illustrations of various animals and believe they actually existed. Well today she is consider one of the highest selling children authors of all time. It is good to imagine and very rewarding also I agree ... there is a lot of imagining going on here ... I imagine there are fairies at the bottom of the garden ... that does only happen when I have at least two bottles of Egyptian wine inside me though!!! Ah now I know why the pharoahs in Egypt believed in many gods! You drink a few bottles of that hardcore Egpytian wine and you will see more then one person in front of you! |
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Smiless, as I have said before, people who have faith in God believe what they believe through their faith. The is no enlightenment needed, no convincing, no logic, no common sense.
I am sorry if I offended you with my remarks. Of course, we don't know one another well enough on web sites like this to understand the intent of another. That in itself leads to broad statements some of which I, myself, make. I do not know you, nor do I know your own deep convictions. Forget any new "Topic". This is the appropriate place for your writings. |
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Smiless, as I have said before, people who have faith in God believe what they believe through their faith. The is no enlightenment needed, no convincing, no logic, no common sense. I am sorry if I offended you with my remarks. Of course, we don't know one another well enough on web sites like this to understand the intent of another. That in itself leads to broad statements some of which I, myself, make. I do not know you, nor do I know your own deep convictions. Forget any new "Topic". This is the appropriate place for your writings. Apology accepted. Now let us both take our medication and laugh about this! Have a great day |
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