whatever belief system a person holds, and no matter how convinced this person is; this person will not have the absolute truth while walking this earth.
whenever this person will get the confirmation or the denial of his/her whole life is right after passing away.
so let's live this life to the fullest from wherever we stand. the most important thing is to be the happiest possible.
However, I'm talking about real happiness, not the happiness provided by vanalities, but that happiness which give us peace of mind and heart.
This real happiness can be reached from whatever position a person holds, the most important thing is being honest and sincere with ourselves.

TLW

That reminds me. I need to get my motocycle on the road and buy a cello.

I totally agree with you! Let us find the time to be kind and help others in need. I usually participate in non profit organizations to try to help those who are not so fortunate.

I have done it for a living for many years before having my child. It is a great feeling to help people in need and believe it or not I learn alot from this.

There isn't a bigger reward then to see a smile that wasn't seen on that person for many years once again cherish the world.
or to be able to watch someone laugh full of joy again.

You never know one day you might need someone to help you and what better way to get that kind of care when you can't care for yourself.


Concering religion I always take the coined phrase from Joseph Campbell: Follow your Bliss!

Whatever floats your boat use it as long as it doesn't hurt others in the process.


May there be peace in your mind, heart, and soul!
John

Hi Miguel,

Nice thought, and I like that you said it as a "personal" message, exactly the way that one needs to view their own beliefs. To that person they are correct, but on the off chance that what they believe, is NOT CORRECT for someone else, that person needs to be happy for themselves and leave others all the opportunity they need to find their own happiness, in their own beleif. Well done!

And smiless, I agree. Let those who are able give what they can to those in need and, as you said, if you end up being the one in need, there will be no fear, for someone will be ABLE to help you.

The One thing a CHRISTIAN DOES KNOW, WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY..... ..is when he/she has been truly born of God( Born again).

Meaning, a christian does not have to wait to die, to KNOW this. God LETS HIM KNOW WHEN HE IS SAVED.

There is a KNOWINg in his/her spirit..an unshakeable knowing..cause God did it..not the one who got saved.

God did the transformation..and made that one into a new creature in Christ Jesus.

"Old things are passed away, behold, all things have become New"


But may I add also.....God is not done with any of us ...everyone is on his/her own personal journey...seeking in one way or another..and God knows the time when every heart will eventually get to the point in life.....where either he/she recieves or doesn't recieve Jesus as the One sent for all mankind.

But I have a peace about you all here.
I believe one day God will make it clear to all of you here..and you all will be saved too.
I beleve that..and have peace.

I Love You All .
So does God.

Why do you need to be born AGAIN..? Wasnt the first time around good enough for you?

Symbelmyne...there is a hunger planted in every heart to know God...God put it there....cause God knows the only way man can be truly fulfilled and full of joy, is to be reconnected back in fellowship with Abba Father.

When sin entered in , sin cut us off from Fellowship with God.(as a result, we all have ben born with a sin nature, going all the way back to adam and eve....but God made a way for man to be saved and restored back with the Father...and that is thru accepting and believing in Jesus with childlike Faith and Trust.) .

Thru Salvation , Fellowship is once more RESTORED with Abba Father thru accepting and believing on Christ Jesus......
and when that happens , there also comes along with it, a fulfillment and peace that passes all understanding in one's heart..... man is once more made COMPLETE , because he once more has a restored Relationship and Fellowship back with Abba Father.

And btw,that restored fellowship back with God, is something every soul yearns for....even if he/she is not aware of what he/she is yearnig for.
But the truth is, that deep yearning in every man's heart....is the yearning to be back in Fellowship with God Almighty.

(ps...excuse all the typos...spilled coffee did a number on my keyboard... )

MorningSong,

You have a very romantic notion of Christianity. And cleary you would like it to be something more than what it claims to be.

The bible does not suggest that everyone will be save. On the contrary according to the teachings of Jesus only very few will actually make it to heaven. The vast majority will not.

So it seems rather strange to me that you would claim to believe in a doctrine, yet not believe what it actually says.

I get a strong feeling about this from a lot of people who call themselves "Christians". They have painted a much different picture of God than the scriptures suggest. They have turned it into something much more romantic and merciful than what the actual doctrine claims it to be.

According to the actual doctrine, very few people will actually make it to heaven. Very few.

As you well know, I don't believe in the doctrine to begin with. So I'm not bothered by this.

But it seems strange that you would suggest something that has not been suggested in the Bible.

I don't believe that it says in the Bible that God is going to make it clear to everyone and they will all be saved in the end.

If I'm mistaken I would be very happy to know where it says that this will happen. I think if we can find a place in the Bible where it says that God is going to make it clear to everyone and they will all be saved in the end then we can all rest at ease that this will indeed be the case then. This would remove any worries any fundamentalist ever had about people not being saved.

In the meantime, I'm totally unware of where it actually states that in the Bible.

I think this is just something you personally would like to believe that the biblical god is like.

Can you show me where it actually says that God will make it clear to everyone and they will all be saved in the end?

I know in my heart you all will be saved here.
I love you all, and have deep trust in the Lord Jesus for you all...

There is a deep cry in a christian's heart, for the ones not saved yet.
We don't want to leave without any of you here.

So I am Believing you all will see one day....You all just don't see yet..that is all
God is Merciful and Patient.

Actually james it does suggest this in the gnostic gospel of peter, i cant quote it but its something like - peter is asking how god could torture unbelievers in hell for eternity and god tells peter they will eventually all be in heaven also, of course this is why it is not in the cannon - hahaha

oooopppsss!! there igo again going off topic, sorry TLW, my bad.

Perhaps many of us here already are saved and you just don't see it.

Do you think that every person who will be save will instantly recognize that the Biblical doctrines are all true?

Do you think that when I'm saved I'll instantly see that it makes perfect sense that God would tell people to stone their unruly and children and judge their brothers to be sinners and stone them to death as well?

I suppose that would have to be part of it.

Right now I can't imagine that being the case. In fact, to be quite honest about it, the very idea sounds really creepy to me. I would just about have to be 'brainwashed' by a supreme deity into believing whatever it wants me to believe. That actually sounds like a sci-fi horror flick.

I suppose that could happen, but I'm not sure if I would want it to happen. Seems to me that would basically erase who I am and cause me to become a zombie who just accepts whatever I'm told.

I'm not sure I want to be that kind of sheep.

For what purpose is it again?

Just to have everlasting life? As a brainwashed sheep?

In truth, if I genuinely do have free will choice, I would rather choose to die.

I mean, with no disrepect to God or anything. It's just my free will choice. After all, if God truly gave me a free will choice, he shouldn't be upset if I chose to die.

I should be permitted to make that choice repectfully. Do disrepect intended toward anyone, including God. I'm just not interested in being a brainwashed sheep for all of eternity.

I would rather just cease to exist. That's my free will choice. Very politely requested. No offense meant toward God. I'm simply declining his offer to become his mindless servant for the rest of eternity.

I'm turning down the job offer.

Politely.

As politely as I possibly can.

How polite do I need to be about it?

I'm just not interested in becoming a mindless servant to some enity for all of eternity. I don't care how many excuses it has for what it has done. I don't care how justified they are, or anything. I'm not passing judgments on the enitity.

I'm simply choosing death over servitude. Supposedly that's within my right to do that.

I'm not choosing evil. I'm not choosing to side with some stupid fallen angel in a war against God. I'm not choosing any of that stupid game stuff.

I'm choosing to be out of the game altogetehr.

I'm requesting that this all-powerful God simply uncreate me, and if it's within his power, I would even request that he make it like I had never existed at all. Ever.

They say that with God all things are possible. If he can pull that one off more power to him!

Make it like I never was.

That's my prayer to the Biblical God.

Dear God,

Please make it like I never existed ever.

In Jesus name I pray,
Amen.

P.S. No hard feelings.

Just make it all go away.

The very idea that someone would be tortured simply because they didn't believe soemthing is demented to begin with.

Any deity that would have that as part of his plan would truly be a demon. The very idea of torturing someone because they didn't believe in something is nothing short of sick and demented.

No way would I want to live in that God's so-called "heaven". Any God who thinks like that is a demon is disguise.

I seriously hope that if there is a God it's truly nicer than me.

If not, then I can only hope that the atheists are right and we're all just a bunch of dirt balls.

hmmm?? i was just looking up gospel of peter, i may be incorrect anyway, it may have been another of the gnostic gospels. anyway one of them states what i said -


heres something of interest i ran across yesterday a take on the textus receptus notb beng the original lnanguage after all but the aramaic languge used in jesus' time.


World or land of Israel? – Acts 11:28
The KJV says: “And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there
should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.”
Acts 11:27-30 [KJV]
27. And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.
28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great
dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.
29 Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren
which dwelt in Judaea:
30 Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.
Now this doesn't make sense at all, why would those in Antioch send relief to those dwelling IN JUDEA
if the famine was to strike all THE WORLD. They would be facing famine themselves. The Jewish New
Testament version (JNT) translates the Greek word as "throughout the Roman Empire" but this has the
same problem, since Antioch and Judea were both in the Roman Empire. The solution lies in the fact
that the word for "WORLD" in the Aramaic manuscripts is ERA (Strong's #772) the Aramaic form of
the Hebrew word ERETZ (Strong's 776). This word can mean "world" (as in Prov. 19:4) "earth" (as in
Dan. 2:35) or "land" (as in Dan. 9:15) and is often used as a euphemism for "The Land of Israel" (as in
Dan. 9:6).
09r0 is misunderstood by Zorba, to mean "world" when here it actually means "land" and is used as it
is so often as a Euphemism for the "land of Israel".

If people do not agree with you , you see them differently and this is human nature I guess .

Beautiful Miguel.....I once did a thread called Put Religion Aside and lets get to know the people...It was pretty great also......Applause for this M.

You are absolutely right! Follow your bliss and feel the joy of life and you are living for god. It is not necessary to belong to any religion or to believe that you are "born again" or initiated into some cult.

Don't worry, be happy.

JB

Morningsong wrote:


***************

Abra wrote:




Abra, I believe this new picture of God that Morningsong speaks of is more accurate than what is written in the traditional religious doctrine. Yes, it is different from the old time religion, but I feel that she does get her information from spirit and has a point.

She says all will be "saved" and she feels this in her heart, irregardless what the old doctrines say. Her background is Christianity so she has blended this feeling with her own spiritual experiences and beliefs.

I also believe that all will be "saved" but for me it is an ascension of the human consciousness and all souls will return to their higher selves. (The Leading edge research group describes this the event as the "Spiral away from the Game" where the individual soul returns to the higher self, ~which is the real self.

I feel the spirituality that comes from some of these new Christians who don't seem to be bothered by the problems with the doctrines of their religion. The inconsistencies don't matter.

And they really don't. But this is not traditional Christianity. It is an evolving spiritual movement within the Christian religion. In abstract I see it as the birth of a new religion.

Jb

This is very true....but also stop and think how you treat those that "Want" to have their beliefs....because it surly does work both ways.....Because I believe what I do.....Why do I get the label fundamentalist, or any other labels....why can't I just be Debbie that loves the Lord Christ....is that to much to ask for.

Not for me. You have your specific beliefs as we all do. You don't push them on others, you just express them. I feel that if we feel love and joy, we are feeling god.

I don't like it when others judge me for my different beliefs and tell me I am going to hell because I know different, just as you know what you know, I know what I know.


JB