yes

as for the animals, you need a soul to go to hell. There would be no afterlife for them.

NO Smiles, one does NOT have to be baptised ,in order to be saved.
That would be like adding works to this free gift of Grace given by God.

However, AFTER salvation, getting baptized is an act of obedience, but again.....does NOT add to one's salvation. Baptism follows, only as an act of obedience, cause one now loves God.

and Smiless?
You are not listening ,my friend...

I already said, God will give man EVERY OPPORTUNITY to Know Him...and IF no missionary came, or no man was sent to let one know of God.....then God would send a ministering angel to let this person know.

In other words, God would SOMEHOW REACH THAT PERSON.

But people on this forum , for example, or WITHOUT excuse now.....cause God is sending person afer person after person, to let you know about God.

I understand now. They will get a message or a opportunity regardless. Okay thanks for your insight morningsong.

I think animal have souls, but not a spirit.

And who says animals aren't in heaven?

Of course animals don't have to get saved..lol...but hey.. ..who konws...maybe we will see our precious pets in heaven one day, too.

The idea that spirits (or souls) are created with the birth of physical bodies is an unjustified notion to begin with.

This is an extreme problem for religions that are based on a judgmental God who judges people based on a single lifetime experience. It's an insurmountable problem really. Any god who would create such a scenario would clearly unjust. That would mean that babies who die at birth, or at a very young age have won a free pass into heaven whilst the people who lived to an older age were exposed to the possible rejection of God's love based on mistakes and poor choices they might make during the course of their lives.

Clearly such a creation would be a highly unjustified creation. Anyone who is being condemned by God for sins they have committed during their life would be fully justified in blaming God for not allowing them to die as babies and thus have gained a free pass into heaven. It would be a totally unjust system and therefore an unjust God.

The same argument can be made for teenagers who die during years when they are being rebellious and uncouth. They were cheated out of heaven, because had they died as babies they would have won a free pass to heaven, and also had they lived to a ripe old age they may have very well wised up and repented for their previous rebellious nature.

Clearly, the system is flawed and unjust. Therefore it can only mean that the creator of the system is flawed and unjust. So any religion that claims to have a God who operates in this way is claiming to worship a God who is flawed and unjust.

There can be no valid arguments against this. The idea of human "souls" being judged for all of eternity based on what they've done during the course of a single long of short lifetime, is a totally unjust idea. All religions that suggest this scenario must be rejected as implausible because those Gods would be unjust and unwise Gods. Those doctrines must be rejected as pure fabrications of men who weren't thinking clearly.

Religions that contain the concept of reincarnation have a much higher likelihood of being true. Especially if the idea is that people are supposed to learn from their life's experiences.

Spider often points out that if a judgmental God fails to punish the unjust then God would be unrighteous. However, even within the biblical religion the most despicable horrid criminals can gain repentance on their death beds by simply accepting Jesus as their Savior and truly repenting their ways. So the idea that sins must be paid for is a flawed idea. Clearly repentance can wash away sins.

Well, if we can believe that repentance is acceptable for those who have committed atrocities but who have finally seen the wickedness of their ways then why not extend that over many lifetimes in a scenario of reincarnation. In that scenario everyone can ultimately repent and learn the lesson that evil is undesirable.

There would be no losers. No need for any eternal hellfire because ultimately everyone would eventually repent. And all that repentance ultimately amounts to is an enlightenment of genuine remorse.

In fact, with the reincarnation scenario everyone would ultimately end up repenting in the end given enough reincarnations. Especially considering the concept of karma where they are treated in the next life in the same way that they've treated others in the previous life. The meaner they are, the more miserable their next life will be until they finally realize that being mean isn't working.

The single-life scenario where judgment is passed for all of eternity would be totally unjust. Especially if newborn souls who die at birth or at very young ages automatically win a free pass to an eternal heaven.

To live beyond your birth would be a genuine curse. If we knew that this was the truth the best possible thing we could do is kill all newborn babies as soon as they are born to guarantee them a free pass into eternal heaven.

Clearly that kind of scenario can't be true. The whole idea of a God who passes eternal judgments based on the lifespan of individuals can't possible be true because such a scenario would be totally unjust and thus require that God himself is unjust. So any religion that claims that this is the way things are necessarily has to be wrong.

Since animals have souls, and the souls lives on, I believe in my heart, that there will be animals in heaven.

And why not?

Since God gave souls to the beautiful creatures He made, they too will live on somewhere.....and I don't see why they wouldn't be in heaven.

Afterall, heaven will be a beautiful place..and again, I am sure God's creatures will be there too.

Personally, I can't imagine heaven without them.


http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/animals-heaven.html


http://www.ourchurch.com/member/w/w_lasalle/

as long as their lack of knowledge pertaining to God is as innocence as a lamb on it's way to be slaughtered

The story of "Adam and Eve" told of how God perfer those that have a lack of knowledge or those that worship him in their hearts without question

but how would God know that you truely worship him in your heart ...even science can explain this...for every thought you have your brain produced signals which have chemical reactions which will permeate through out ones body and produce a chemical aura ..which means that no one can fake their way in Heaven so those that do not follow The Old Testament which is the true word of God or those that worship Jesus as God will simply not have the aura for Heaven but the aura of evil or the aura for Hell

http://www.geocities.com/funchesfilms/aura.html

Again, this question (which I believe was asked with sincerity) is an example of just how far Christians have to reach to come up with something that looks and feels like an answer.

First, it makes no sense at all, in any faith, to believe or hold as truth a doctrine that punishes babies for original sin. In fact, to hold a baby responsible for anything at all is morally reprehensible and void of logic and reason. Anyone who believes that a baby would go anywhere but to a place of eternal peace would immediately have to divorce themselves of that faith--for to believe in something less than heaven for a baby would mean faith in a cruel and murderous God. So, that question as a stand alone is fairly easy in that despite the lack of empirical evidence for such a belief, it is the only one that allows a person to sleep at night without a terrible fear that they are worshipping the worst type of monster.

As far as the tribe in Africa that has never heard the message of Christ, it is not suppositious to believe that such a tribe exists--for you know that throughout history many such tribes have existed. Many never heard the Word and as a result many died not knowing or believing in something anathema to Christian teachings. The idea that if no missionary paid them a visit that an angel of some sort would visit is a nice thought--but again, such a belief has to be in place in order to make their fate justifiable in the reflection of a religion of Peace.

This of course does nothing at all to deal with the Muslim, born in Jordan who has, from the time of her birth been taught that Islam is "The way, the truth, and the light." She is taught to hold a disdain for Christianity in the same way that many Christians contemptuously hold Islam. In her world she believes that every one of you here who professes Christianity is going to hell. But it all works out in the end because you believe the same about her and all of the followers of Islam. And on and on the circle spins.

It's pretty easy when one is born in the 20th or 21st century in middle America to flippantly scoff about the many obvious ways in which Christ has revealed Himself to "the world". An actual look around the actual world tells a very different story.

Still, it seems rather impossible to me everyone has heard and it seems grotesquely unlikely that any child would be damned for not accepting God when they haven't yet mastered eating without half of it winding up on their face and floor.

-Drew

You don't need to live in a jungle to be safe from the judgmental hypocrisy of Christianity.

Rejecting the stories as being completely absurd myths is not the same as rejecting a God.

There is no reason whatsoever why anyone should believe in the biblical stories.

None.

Period.

And without a valid reason to believe that they have anything to do with God then a person cannot be held responsible for rejecting them as pure asburd myths.

The whole thing boils down a an extremely arrogant religion which uses the entirely underhanded pathetically disgusting brainwashing guilt trip, that if you reject their religion you're rejection God and you will pay for that terrible mistake.

That's total and utter hogwash.

No decent God would create such an extremely demented system as a criteria upon which to judge souls.

The mistake the authors of the Bible made is that the religion started out being about sin. But now it somehow became totally demented into being nothing more than about believing in the religion itslelf.

With Christianity is much more important to believe that Jesus is God than it is not to sin. In fact, sinning has been reduced to an aside. Now it's MUCH MORE about accepting that Jesus Christ is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords than it is about being a good person.

It got way off track and crashed in the most terrible way possible. Now it's nothing more than passing judgments againts non-believers. It's all about believer and non-believers.

It's no longer about sinners and righteousness. It's all about the importance of believing in the religion now. It doesn't matter how good a person is, if they fail to accept the religion they're doomed to eternal damnation no matter now nice of a person they are.

The religion has deteriorated to be about a God who HATES non-believers more than anything else. Believe in me, or go to hell!

but yet God allowed the first born of Egypt to be slaughtered and some if not most were babies ..and what's possible in life is also possible in death ..so their is a chance that God will damn those babies that isn't taught about him at birth as a punishment to the parents that was told of him just like what happened with the first born of Egypt

and it's a fact that some parent will be in Heaven as their children burn in Hell

MS, your not going to heaven if you think that heaven is someplace else than earth! by your book you will be here! on a new earth. If that's the case, then yes there could be animals, but this thinking of some etherial heaven up in space is not what your book teaches.

No biblical support for this premise Funches.

stone all unruly children to death

Well I think this has been handled......Funches you need a new one....the going back to the babies of egypt is getting old...It has been explained to you countless times......But dare i say to the one who still is not hearing or understanding....which is par for the course...

Animals will be in heaven......

ok then I will give a better example.... when God flooded the planet and drown everyone except for a few dung shovelers on Noah's Ark ...in which more than just the first born were killed ....all the babies were killed

you going to need something to eat there

no my sweet you won't.

"Feralcatlady" why do christians "assume" that everyone wants to go to Heaven to be ruled for an eternity by a God that kills innocent babies

why would Christians assume people would want to exist in a place along side them as they worship and praise creatures that kill innocent babies ...is this truely what you envision Heaven to be ..to a non-believer it sounds more like the place called Hell ...

Im going to be resurrected