EXCUSE me, do you have a problem with Israel? I mean, after all, you claim to be a Christian, Christianity stems directly from Israel. Does this mean you have a problem with Jesus Christ? But, you claim to be a Christian, I just do not understand................

Lindyy

She probably gets all of her intellectual information from her tarot cards. She claims she can read the future, at least that is what she told me a while back.

Lindyy

The Palmach, thats the unit. But I had it wrong the were used by the British in the Middle East against the Germans!
They later went underground and started attacking the British Army!

The tarot cards don't read the future they read the energy of the present moment. That present moment indicates the most probable outcome which some people think is the future. But a probable outcome is not the future. It is only a probable outcome.

Many times the probable outcome is correct unless the energy of the moment is consciously altered, so the probable outcome can change with some effort.

As far as where I get my information, I did research for 5 years and I read a lot of books and do deep web searches.

You don't have to agree with me and you don't have to like me or my tarot cards Lindyy. I don't care.

During WWII, the World Zionist Organization and other Jewish groups demanded that the US Army assign Jews to 'all-Jewish' units, to fight as a part of the US Army.

Toward the end of WWII, these Jewish units set up a contraband smuggling underground to smuggle arms into Palestine, in anticipation of the Zionist seizure of power there. In addition, personnel from these units smuggled themselves to Palestine to train Haganah and Palmach units, the core of the growing Jewish army in Palestine.

Artillery, small arms, armored vehicles and even a few planes were smuggled into Palestine, and when the showdown came the Zionist forces were overwhelmingly powerful. All the Palestinians had were local police. They and the few Arab military units who came to the aid of the Palestinians were no match for the Israelis.

By the time international outrage forced Israel to stop its attack, Israeli forces had seized 2/3rds of Palestine.

They were to seize the remainder in 1967, again in the face of international but ineffectual outrage.

Oceans

I wonder what the world would be like if we treated the Arab countries in the same way that we treat Israel.

even Jesus wasn't a christian

I wonder what the world would be like if we would just work together to make the world a better place.

Some people in high places fear that world peace would cause over population, then starvation. So they invent wars to kill people off. At the same time they make lots of money and collect the wealth and power for themselves.

Have you ever read "The report from Iron Mountain?" It is an interesting document about how world peace is not a viable option and about how there must be an enemy to focus on and to continue wars.

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Wiki reports this:


2 October 1916 – 28 January 1999)[1] was an American writer, best known as the author of the bestseller The Report From Iron Mountain: On the Possibility and Desirability of Peace. In the original 1967 publication of this satire/hoax, written at the suggestion of Victor Navasky, Lewin was identified as the author only of the introductory material to what was presented as an actual government report concluding if a lasting peace "could be achieved, it would almost certainly not be in the best interests of society to achieve it." (Times obit)

In 1972, Lewin confessed that the report has been a hoax. At that time, he wrote that the Pentagon Papers, were "as outrageous, morally and intellectually" as his own invention: "The charade is over. Some of the documents read like parodies of Iron Mountain, rather than the reverse." (Times obit) Eventually, he had to sue to establish his copyright over the work, since actual U.S. government documents are inherently in the public domain. (Carvajal, 1996)

Lewin graduated from Harvard University. Before becoming a writer, he worked as a labor organizer in New England and in his father's sugar refinery in Indianapolis, Indiana. He had two marriages: the first to Iris Zinn Lewin and the second to poet, playwright and children's book author Eve Merriam. Both ended in divorce. Later, his "longtime companion" was Lorraine Davis.

Israel and Christianity have nothing to do with each other.

It is true that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all have close historical ties with Palestine, but Israel itself is a modern neo-colonial creation. Israel now seeks to wrap itself in the cloak of Judaism -- in large part to assure itself of Jewish international support and to win the support of non-Jews who may be sympathetic to what the Jews suffered in WWII, but the founding of Israel and its core principles were secular -- not Jewish.

David Ben Gurion, Menachem Begin, Theodor Herzl -- among the many giants of the Zionist movement -- were secular and in some cases, atheists. They each have written their memoirs, in case you would like to check this out for yourself.

Many US Christian evangelicals have been persuaded that supporting Israel is in some way connected to being a good Christian, but, in my opinion, blind support for Israel violates everyone of Jesus's moral teachings. Were He alive today, He would be the first to demand that the Palestinians' rights be recognized, and that Israel stop its oppressive ways.

Oceans

Thank you again Oceans. The belief of some Christians that they are required to support Israel or that they should support Israel because of some imagined connection to Christianity is a fallacy.

So they send their sons to die in defense of a very corrupt and ruthless nation who has no right to be doing what it is doing. (Of course I believe that was the plan.)

People need to wake up.

JB

What a provocative thought!

If we treated the Arab countries with half the friendliness and respect the US has given Israel, we would not have been attacked on Sept 11, would not be "at war" with the Muslim or Arab worlds, would have long-term contracts for oil exports at reasonable prices, would not have invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, would not be isolated in the international community, etc.

The existence of Israel AND our blind and thoughtless support for its actions is not the number one problem facing our country. We have printed money recklessly to pursue foreign actions that we were gulled into taking by Israel and Israeli disinformation, with the result that the value of the US dollar has fallen by about 45%. This is a BIG part of why we are paying so much for oil: we have to pay a lot more dollars for the same foreign products than we did before.

It is not all Bush's fault. The US blind support for Israel goes back before him, as does the devaluation of the dollar resulting from foreign policy misadventures. Witness: LBJ and his blind eye to the Israeli attacks on the Palestinians, Egyptians and Syrians in 1967; and Nixon's devaluation of the dollar by 17% in 1973.

Americans have impoverished themselves by this thoughtless support for Israel, while allowing ourselves to become identified in the eyes of the world with morally repugnant actions of Israel itself.

Christians did have a big part in the creation of the Israeli State Oceans.
If they had not influenced the British and American Gov's then the Zionist movement would have been impossible! The Jews had a dream, but they did not have the means to see that dream come to reality!

I think you are mistaken here. It's the muslims who have an irrational hatred toward Jews. They are the ones who don't want peace. They consider anyone who is not muslim an afront to their religion. That includes Christians as well..actually...they have distaint for new agers as well.

I don't think Jesus would want to put anyone in harms way.

As far as religion goes, In Israel, there are those Jews who acknowledge God as their God as well as their nationality. Some don't want to acknowledge God...a nation divided.

We are all praying for unity for all people under the banner of Christ...our gentle Lamb of God.

I am not so sure about this assessment.

I think that our support for Israel benefited from the attack on 9-11 because the attack was blamed on Arabs. I don't believe Arabs were in any way responsible for 9-11.

Terrorist acts are always being done by unknown factions and then blamed on someone else to stir up war. There are documented reports on this method of operation.

You want to look at who benefited most by 9-11. Israel did. Bush did. Neocons did. Zionism did. The evidence points to Zionist factions responsible for 9-11. The so-called melted beams that were evidence were taken away from the scene and the investigation into 9-11 was hampered.

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On September 11, five Israeli army veterans were arrested by the FBI after several witnesses saw them "dancing", "high-fiving", and "celebrating" as they took pictures of the World Trade Center disaster from across the river in New Jersey. Steven Gordon was the lawyer who volunteered to represent the five Israelis. He was asked by a Hebrew newspaper why the five men were being detained by the FBI. Here’s what Gordon told Yediot America:

"On the day of the disaster, three of the five boys went up on the roof of the building where the company office is located," said Gordon. "I'm not sure if they saw the twin towers collapse, but, in any event, they photographed the ruins right afterwards. One of the neighbors who saw them called the police and claimed they were posing, dancing and laughing, against the background of the burning towers….

"Anyhow, the three left the roof, took an Urban truck, and drove to a parking lot, located about a five-minute drive from the offices. They parked, stood on the roof of the truck to get a better view of the destroyed towers and took photographs. A woman who was in the building above the lot testified that she saw them smiling and exchanging high-fives. She and another neighbor called the police and reported on Middle-Eastern looking people dancing on the truck. They copied and reported the license plates. 2

When the photos were developed, they revealed that the dancing Israelis were smiling in the foreground of the New York massacre. 3 According to ABC’s 20/20 attempted whitewash of the incident, in addition to their outrageous and highly suspicious behavior, the five also had in their possession the following items; box-cutters, European passports, and $4700 cash hidden in a sock. 4 Why were these Israeli agents so happy about the horrible massacre that was unfolding right before their very eyes? What evil spirit could possess people who are supposed to be America's "allies", and who receive billions of dollars in financial and military aid from US taxpayers each year , to publicly rejoice as innocent people (including many American jews) were burning to death and jumping out of 110 story buildings? Could it be that these happy Israeli army veterans were in some way linked to this monstrous attack? That’s what officials close to the investigation initially told The Bergen Record newspaper of New Jersey. 5

As incredible, as ridiculous, and as "paranoid" as that belief may appear to you at this point, the fact is that certain elements within the Israeli government, and Zionist movement in general, have a long history of attacking the USA and framing Arabs in order to gain support from the US. Before we begin to piece together what really transpired on 9-11, it is absolutely critical that we first review some historical precedents regarding Israel's and International Zionism's treacherous history of manipulating America (and other nations) for their own selfish purposes. Without a basic understanding of this history, it would be impossible to understand the truth as it is today. So put aside your preconceived notions, your psychological defense mechanisms, and your prejudices, and step into my time machine for a journey down the memory hole.

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http://www.sott.net/signs/Stranger_Than_Fiction.htm

We were never enemeies of the mid east. They decided to hate us because we were ALSO friendly to Israel. We didn't take sides with their irrational hatred of Jews. What does that say about THEM?

Irrational hatred of Jews? I think if you were being attacked in the night or bombed or your house was bulldozed down, your hatred would not be considered irrational.

I get tired of everyone accusing people of hating Jews. Jews are no different than anyone else. If they are the aggressors and if they make themselves the enemy and invade your country, then you are irrational for hating them? Get real.

Well, yes, in a sense you are right. Left to their own devices, Jews would never have been able to create Israel in Palestine.

The Zionist vision was a big one. Its creator, an Austrian journalist named Theodore Herzl, proposed that the Jewish State be set up in a land where there no existing inhabitants. The idea was that given this condition no one would be harmed by the creation of the Jewish State.

But others within the Zionist movement realized that well-educated and successful Jews from Europe would have little interest in joining a new state created in the middle of nowhere (areas of Uganda and Patagonia were under consideration), but that with the appeal of the historical religious/mythic connection of Jews to Palestine it might work there.

You are right that Christians, as individuals helped the Zionists achieve this. Arthur Balfour is one example, in Britain, and Harry Truman is another, in the US. But here is where I draw a distinction: Balfour and Truman were, while Christian, not motivated by religious Christian zealotry. Their motivations were secular, and their religious affiliation was incidental to their policies.

Balfour wanted to secure the financial assistance of wealthy European Jews in Britain's struggle against Germany in WWI, and Truman wanted to secure Jewish financial support in his election campaign for the US presidency. As Truman put it, 'I don't have any Arabs constituents.'

To my knowledge, not many if any Christian organizations -- that is, organizations set up for the purpose of advancing Christian goals -- supported the creation of Israel. Indeed, US Christian missionary organizations were strongly opposed to it, as were Americans who were individually strongly Christian. See, for example, the King-Crane Commission.

The embrace of modern Israeli right-wing Likkud policies is a fairly recent phenomenon, and resulted from deliberate efforts by Jewish Orthodox rabbis to convince Christian evangelical leaders that they should support Israel.

I am guessing that armed only with Christian Scripture, these evangelical leaders, not particularly knowledgeable about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict -- easily fell for it.

It is a fascinating bit of history, and shows how powerful ideas can be, for good or for evil.

Oceans

Israel and Christianity have nothing to do with each other.

It is true that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all have close historical ties with Palestine, but Israel itself is a modern neo-colonial creation. Israel now seeks to wrap itself in the cloak of Judaism -- in large part to assure itself of Jewish international support and to win the support of non-Jews who may be sympathetic to what the Jews suffered in WWII, but the founding of Israel and its core principles were secular -- not Jewish.

David Ben Gurion, Menachem Begin, Theodor Herzl -- among the many giants of the Zionist movement -- were secular and in some cases, atheists. They each have written their memoirs, in case you would like to check this out for yourself.

Many US Christian evangelicals have been persuaded that supporting Israel is in some way connected to being a good Christian, but, in my opinion, blind support for Israel violates everyone of Jesus's moral teachings. Were He alive today, He would be the first to demand that the Palestinians' rights be recognized, and that Israel stop its oppressive ways.

Oceans


I think you are mistaken here. It's the muslims who have an irrational hatred toward Jews. They are the ones who don't want peace. They consider anyone who is not muslim an afront to their religion. That includes Christians as well..actually...they have distaint for new agers as well.

I don't think Jesus would want to put anyone in harms way.

As far as religion goes, In Israel, there are those Jews who acknowledge God as their God as well as their nationality. Some don't want to acknowledge God...a nation divided.

We are all praying for unity for all people under the banner of Christ...our gentle Lamb of God.

Hi, Quickstepper.

Several comments are needed here.

Muslims do not have an irrational hatred of Jews (nor of Americans, for that matter). They do, as do non-Muslims, look askance at what Israel has done to the Palestinians, and of those who look askance, some are willing to try to help the Palestinians, as are some non-Muslims. For example, many Christians and some Jews are actively working to force Israel to back down from its occupation and mistreatment of the Palestinians. Indeed, many Israelis themselves oppose the Likkudist program of the Israeli government these last many years.

Israeli actions in Palestine and the Middle East are a SECULAR issue; it is not a matter of religion. There are Muslim Palestinians, Christian Palestinians, and Jewish Palestinians: they have all been victimized by Israel. It is not a matter of their religion.

Oceans

JB, thanks for posting about the Iron Mountain report. I had to get a good chuckle about the author, who pretends to be merely introducing the 'report' than having to scramble to assert his copyright over it!

Oceans