i never said i didn't enjoy it. i was clearly stating that the franchise can be in a better position. and in my opinion, its not. two of my favorite films from nolan are "following" and "momento." these are films that nolan actually created and wrote. nolan has a great way of developing characters, hence, momento...a character who needs to rediscover himself. another thing i like about nolan is his film noir take on his films. but i feel nolan wants to concentrate way too much on bruce waynes anguish, which there is nothing wrong about that, but can he control the batman? i think not!

now getting goyer, was not exactly a great idea. i don't know about his knowledge of the batman, but other than the blade series, he doesn't have much to represent. with so many live-action batman movies made, i think its time to give batman to the knowledgeable. i'm not degrading nolan or goyer or burton or schumacher. they took their turns, but is it wrong to find people who knows the ideology of batman? that is why i mentioned frank miller. a source creator of batman, now, a hollywood director. one of the few artist in hollywood at the moment who seems true to his art. take a look at his comic book sin city and then watch sin city.

the cast for begins was a great choice. one of my all time favorite actor is gary oldman. he can have the smallest role in a film, i'd still enjoy watching him. although, i don't really like the choice for the man himself. bale is great actor and seeing him as a deprived hero i believe he plays bruce wayne well. although, i also believe any good actor could've portrayed bruce wayne. i'd like to see an actor who can portray both bruce and batman. i understand bruce is a very troubled man, anyone who has heard of batman knows that. so, theres no need of explaining how troubled bruce wayne is. its a matter of finding the correct actor to play the character. remember, the movie isn't called "bruce wayne," it's called "BATMAN!"

i saw this fan-made amateur batman short. the whole 8mins of that film was more gripping and darker than any feature length batman film i have ever seen. my point is that there are great directors, writers, and actors out there, who hollywood has no knowledge of and would care less about. truthfully, all they care about is throwing celebrity names in your faces. sadly, you guys take it! did morgan freeman really need to be in Begins? and don't get me wrong, i appreciate hollywood actors, they can just be miscast sometimes. i understand you guys enjoy it because of the hollywood status. would you really like the film if the entire cast were unknown actors?

oh, and thanks for "giving" me the pointer on the scarecrow. yes, i understand its supposed to be the origin of the scarecrow...its pretty much the origin of most characters. but the scarecrow seems so comfortable in what he was doing its hard to believe he has never terrorized before. you don't just one day say i'm gonna be this freaky goon who's gonna terrorize society. no! surely, he's planned to do this...and surely he has an origin of his own. so, i think this was an introduction to the scarecrow. also, at the end, there was an introduction to the joker. meaning, he exist! dun dun dunnnnn!!!

heath's take on the joker looks freak'n amazing!



p.s. i may rock! but i'm not made of stone...i will be in line for this one!

Good points cool_guy. Allow me to retort.

See, when you talk about giving writers, directors out there a chance to make Batman and they are not proven, it really is a false hope. Batman is a mega franchise. They just won't hand the reigns over to anyone. In fact, WB wanted Michael Bay to revitalize it but he passed. They wanted him cause of his box office success, which is what they care about (the studio). Nolan's name came up, and he jumped at it. He wanted to do it, and he wanted to do it right. I will never say that a comic book movie will fully be true to the comics themselves, but Nolan and Goyer have come closer than anyone else has (IMO). Nolan knew there was pressure to deliver a box office hit, and he could have chosen to go with just action and hardly no story (Which is what Fantastic Four did, or Tim Story did with those two movies). Nolan assembled a great cast. Did he need Freeman or Oldman or Caine in the movie? Probably not, but even so, they all agreed to do it and they came back. One other thing about Nolan is that he is not a typical Hollywood director. He lives in London, and is more or less anti Hollywood.

As for Frank Miller. Sorry, but I have to disagree. I don't think Miller would write or direct a good version of Batman. Sin City was good, but I know alot of people who just did not care for Miller or his vision. And, he would have to appease more than just the loyal fan base of Batman lovers. He would have to reach out to the masses, and I am not sure he could. I think the guy is a visionary, but there is no way a studio would allow him to do Batman. It just won't happen.

my point exactly...thank you! people are way too focused on seeing whos on top. michael bay? are you serious!?!?! but you have to agree...its truely the names of the actors who carried the movie. like i asked before, would you have watched and enjoy it if it were made from complete unknowns? and thats how hollywood works....lets give it to this guy...he knows nothing about batman but he made blade! i do not oppose hollywood, but i disagree with some of their actions. its all about box-office hits! where's the art? wheres the loyalty? if there were any, nolan should've gone to miller...not goyer.

and of course, nolan wanted to do it right! who wouldn't want to hit it big with their film. i give him props for doing it and trying to keep it as real as possible but i have yet seen anything remotely close to what a true batman movie could be. and how could miller not write a good script to batman...he was the writer for the dark knight series. c'mon, its all in his creative mind! you can't really debate that. but you're right, people don't want art and honesty, they want big names and box office hits!

i'm not one to see a full action packed movie...i prefer a movie with a good story. begins was good because it was about batman's origin. but that was all given already, thats the story to begin wih. after that....anything interesting. not really. a deadly gas in gothams sewer pipes? not so dark when it comes to Ra's Al Ghul and the Scarecrow!

i'm not saying lets just hand this project over to complete unknowns...that would merely be a test of loyalty to the batman franchise. but i am saying, reach out and look for the most compatible artists.

But the real Joker isn't supposed to be withdrawn, he's supposed to be the life of the party. He's supposed to be so backward and twisted that only he can understand his own dark logic. He's the one super villain that is literally feared and avoided by other super villains...because he's so off-the-wall and unpredictable that even they don't know what to expect from him. He's a kind of superpsycho in that the laws of everyday psychosis don't apply to him.

Imagine being a psychopath that even other psychopaths shun. Man, that's an outcast. And man, am I a total geek.

i get what your saying man. the joker is never withdrawn. he'll say what he wants and do what he wants at any time and at any cost. kinda like nicholson did for the joker...he created that kind of fear and power! he was perfect for that role. although, i really really want to see heath's portrayal of the joker. he does look a bit withdrawn...kinda like bruce wayne's character. hmmm...there has to be something behind that. i would love to see it. damn heath looks like he put his entire mind and soul into this character...which will just be ****ing awesome!!!

woot

I didn't like Nicholson's Joker...it was like the Joker on a sedative binge. Closer...but not hysterical enough.

The Joker gives the impression of someone who is absolutely not in control of his own faculties. The irony is that he actually is in control of his faculties. He's manic but calculating, and very aware of himself and the world around him. That's what gives everyone the creeps, and it's also what makes the character so psychologically fascinating.

I guess the ironic part is that Nicholsen seemed to have a fair enough grasp of what the Joker was, but maybe didn't have enough Joker in him to play the part the best.

My question is why wasn't Jim Carrey ever offered the role of Joker? That would be a match made in heaven!

Jim Carrey? C'mon, he's not at all the guy for Joker. Yea, he's nutty and over the top but he's just not who I'd see as that. Besides...The Riddler? That's a total do-over. And I'm pretty sure Nolan wants his series to continue with the gritty aspect they've got now.

Ok, I also totally understate how crazy and out there the Joker is supposed to be. I was just saying that they've probably shown us only a smidgen of what Ledger has done with him. Why would they but out how he had done it? Think about the missed publicity and also the fact that people are already saying the joker killed him. How hard is that gonna be for him family to see? I'd think, out of courtesy and marketing, they'd hold back on the psycho until the last minute.

haha...right. its funny cause nicholson was pretty much being the actor that he usually is in any film that he's in. but i think he gets the job done. he really has those qualities....he's good, he's bad, he's deranged, he's always in control!

Ok I was half asleep when I wrote that. I meant what's in capitals

All I know is my entire family is waiting to see it...even my 19 yr old daughter (for Ledger of coarse)....and we shall go!

god i can't wait for this one
july 25th over in the UK - another week longer than the US
loved Begins - Nolan got together an incredible cast that believed in what they were doing and managed to get the Dark Knight back on track after
Schumacher's technicolour vomit fests.

Woot! One more week till it comes out. I'm in full geek mode now!

We got a 8 person trip going! We're all geeking out!!

I know. I talked to some of my buds and this is the movie of the summer for them (and me too). We are like kids in a candy store.

Nana........nana.......nana.........nana Baaaaaaatman

The classics never die.

And I love Adam West on Family Guy.

He's my favourite on Family Guy! Love how crazy he is

I know. Loved how he lost his pegs to his Light Brite, claiming someone stole his name, and he called himself Adam We.....

Omgosh I just choked on my lunch! I forgot about that. It was sooooo funny! And the one where Meg worked in his office?