I don't have to imagine it, I live it.

The porblem with "defining" Paganism is there are so many definitions that to simply 'define" would take hundreds and thousands of book... I was interviewed on a local channel here in Ohio for a "Pagan Pride Day" I was hosting to benefit the battered Woman's shelter, and in it I stated "Ask 10 different Pagans the definition and you'll get 15 different answers"

I truly believe that. And there is nothing wrong with it.

lily, that's just like the old idiom of the jew's ask two rabbi's for the meaning of a verse and you'll get at least three answer's - each one will hold their own opinion, and lay out at least one more possablity -

"religious belief's i hope become a thing of the past - i hope we all find our own path of contentment - even the bible tells it's follower's to "work out your own salvation" - meaning it is an individual process not a combined effort. I think "religion" is man's worst contributation to mankind, no matter what form or mode it may be or take. I know i would hate to think that anything i have written or will write would be taken by other's to be "the truth" and build a community of follower's around those word's or gleaning's. as of now my belief's rest in the only truth's being the natural truth's but that does not mean i think that there are not any other -only that those are all i can completely trust as of now, i surely dont trust my own mind and feelings - i'm to aware that they can be changed on a daily basis depending on what i read or see or come across in daily life so to say. So here's to all of you here and everywhere - a toast to what ever float's your boat

Very well said...

yeah - but then what do you know - hahaha

I am blonde ya know...

true but then most brunette's are these days

Upon reading this thread, there is just something that I would like to point out. Pagan was a term thought up by Christians to describe any religion that didn't believe in God. It's an umbrella term that technically covers such large religions as Buddhism and Zoroastrianism. My last name is Pagan, so I did do a little bit of research on the subject.

So I was just wondering why 'pagans' would name their own religious practices after a seemingly derogitory term. And I'm very very sorry if I'm being ignorant.

If the term was "thought up by Christians" (I don't know if this is true) to "describe any religion that didn't believe in God" as you say... Here is a dumb question... if a religion does not believe in God, they why do you call it a religion?

Of course I have known Christians who believe that if you are not a Christian, you "don't believe in God" because for some reason they think they own or have copyright on the idea of God, and that their's is the only God ~and they own him.

Others just claim that pagans worship "false gods." Well, at least here, they admit that pagans worship "some kind of god."

The term for a person who does not believe in a god is atheist, not pagan.

Pagans are simply "non-Christians" to Christians.

Does anyone know where the term pagan actually came from?

JB

spiritual wolf seem's to think he has the answer - but i can't say for sure



www.paganspath.com/magik/pagan.htm


log into his site above for a complete explanation of him on why he comes to the conclusions he states he's listed hundred's of citations or references. seem's pretty through.

Sorry for the copy and paste but I don't have a lot of time to write out my own answer today.. LexM5 is correct that originally the term pagan was used as a deragatory term against people that were not Christians, Jews, or Muslim although not necessarily made up by them. When and where it became a culturally acceptable term for pagans today I am honestly not sure but this is the origin of the word. Starting most likely in Rome.

As for JB's other question in regards to why paganism is called a religion if they don't believe in God. Some pagans do believe in God. Maybe not the Christian God. But they believe there is a creator. Other believe it is the earths energy controlling everything and others believe in multiple Gods. The definition that I choose to use for religion purposes is.

"1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

Not necessarily believing in a God to be determined a religion. Now on the flip side of that not all pagans consider themself religious but rather spiritual. Paganism is not actually an accepted religion. Wicca is the legally accepted religion but so many people use the term interchangeably that it gets confused sometimes. Paganism can't really be accepted as a religion because it doesn't follow just one religious path. It is whatever you make it out to be. It's your religion whether you believe in a god or not. But Pagans are far from Atheists.



Origin of the term: PAGAN


There is general agreement that the word "Pagan" comes from the Latin word "paganus." Unfortunately, there is no consensus on the precise meaning of the word in the fifth century CE and before. There are three main interpretations. 16 None has won general acceptance:

Most modern Pagan sources interpret the word to have meant "rustic," "hick," or "country bumpkin" -- a pejorative term. The implication was that Christians used the term to ridicule country folk who tenaciously held on to what the Christians considered old-fashioned, outmoded Pagan beliefs. Those in the country were much slower in adopting the new religion of Christianity than were the city folks. They still followed the Greek state religion, Roman state religion, Mithraism, various mystery religions, etc., long after those in urban areas had converted.

Some believe that in the early Roman Empire, "paganus" came to mean "civilian" as opposed to "military." Christians often called themselves "miles Christi" (Soldiers of Christ). The non-Christians became "pagani" -- non-soldiers or civilians. No denigration would be implied.

C. Mohrmann suggests that the general meaning was any "outsider," -- a neutral term -- and that the other meanings, "civilian" and "hick," were merely specialized uses of the term. 17

By the third century CE, its meaning evolved to include all non-Christians. Eventually, it became an evil term that implied the possibility of Satan worship. The latter two meanings are still in widespread use today.

There is no generally accepted, single, current definition for the word "Pagan." The word is among the terms that the newsgroup alt.usage.english, calls "skunk words." They have varied meanings to different people. The field of religion is rife with such words. consider: Christian, cult, hell, heaven, occult, Paganism, pluralism, salvation, Witch, Witchcraft, Unitarian Universalist, Voodoo, etc. Each has so many meanings that they often cause misunderstandings wherever they are used. Unfortunately, most people do not know this, and naturally assume that the meaning that they have been taught is universally accepted. A reader must often look at the context in which the word is used in order to guess at the intent of the writer.

We recognize that many Wiccans, Neopagans, and others regularly use the terms "Pagan" and "Paganism" to describe themselves. Everyone should be free to continue whatever definitions that they wish. However, the possibility of major confusion exists -- particularly if one is talking to a general audience. When addressing non-Wiccans or non-Neopagans, it is important that the term:

Be carefully defined in advance, or that
Its meaning is clearly understandable from the text's context.

I heard that John Lennon song sung in a church a while back. We did a contemporary worship service in a Presbyterian Church (lst Presbyterian, Asbury Park NJ, now the church on the hill) I uess in about 1974 or so. A cousin of mine played keyboards as us youth sung the song for the congregation. Kind of ironic, wasn't it?

I could imagine that someone in the back could've sat there and called out "here pagan, pagan pagan. Here pagan!"

So then the title of this thread is basically moot, because a "pagan belief system" could mean just about anything that is non-Christian.

It could have just asked the question: "Anyone on here have any non-Christian belief system?"

jb

no jellybean, it would have to state " does anyone here have a "non-monotheistic" religious belief system or other non suedo-christian primary uthaxial interbred conceptual thought system.?" - Uthaxial being the governing word!!

As you point out to Creative - "you have to define everything by it's meaning in order to make a meaningful discussion or statement." stay within your own guidelines or as you say ""on topic"" or leave - i will not put up with your petty and demeaning comment's anymore!!

Basically. I think the way she phrased the title of the thread was way to general to get the kind of response I think she was looking for but at least it made things interesting. :-D