Chaz,

The bill in question here (Educational benefits for veterans)has always been in effect since FDA signed the original in 1944:

The bill today is simply to update and improve educational benefits for those coming home from war.

http://www.gibill2008.org/about.html This site will give you a lot of information, answer many questions you may have. www. IVAV.org is an organization to aid Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans returning to America.

www.gibill2008.org:

"In 1944, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt signed the original GI Bill, ensuring that eight million combat veterans coming home from Germany and Japan would be able to afford an education. Called the “Servicemen’s Readjustment Act,” the World War II GI Bill covered tuition, fees, and books, and gave veterans a living stipend while they were in school. Presidents Gerald Ford and George H.W. Bush, Senators Bob Dole and Patrick Moynihan, and authors Norman Mailer and Frank McCourt all relied on the GI Bill.

Experts have argued that the GI Bill “reinvented America” after a half-decade of war. Indeed, a 1988 Congressional study showed that every dollar spent on educational benefits under the original GI Bill added seven dollars to the national economy in terms of productivity, consumer spending, and tax revenue. But in his signing statement, President Roosevelt spoke more simply:

“[The GI Bill] gives emphatic notice to the men and women in our armed forces that the American people do not intend to let them down.”
Today, 1.5 million troops are returning from Iraq and Afghanistan to a very different future than the one FDR made possible for the Greatest Generation. THE CURRENT EDUCATIONAL BENEFITS OFFERED TO VETERANS ARE FAR LOWER THAN THE ORIGINAL GI BILL (EMPHASIS LINYDY CAPS_. Today, after paying a nonrefundable contribution from their first military paychecks, troops can receive a total of up to $39,600 towards their education. Unfortunately, this covers only 60-70% of the average cost of four years at a public college or university, or less than two years at a typical private college.

In addition, structural problems and bureaucratic delays discourage veterans from using their GI Bill benefits. National Guardsmen and Reservists, including those who have served multiple combat tours, typically receive only a fraction of their GI Bill benefits. Moreover, 30% of troops who pay the nonrefundable $1,200 contribution do not end up using the GI Bill at all. These veterans have paid the government $230 million, but received nothing in return.


..........Rather than continuing to spend billions in bonuses for lower-standard enlistees, INCREASING GI Bill BENEFITS (lINDYY EMPHASIS CAPS) would encourage high-aptitude young people to join the military. The GI Bill is the military’s single most effective recruitment tool: the number-one reason civilians join the military is to get money for college. As our military recovers and resets in the coming years, an expanded GI Bill will play a crucial role in ensuring that our military remains the strongest and most advanced in the world."

Hope this helps you understand a little better.

I do not undertand why mnhiker wants to make President Bush look like he is against the bill, when we ALL know that there is a game played in Congress called 'PORK' - I will vote for what you want (REGARDLESS OF WHAT IT IS) if you vote for what I want (REGARDLESS OF WHAT IT IS).

I listened to President Bush when he said he was not going to allow PORK money to be used to take away money that should be put towards this new GI Bill.

AND, friends, this is what "mnhiker" does NOT want all of you to know. WHY? Ask him.

Lindyy

Bull**** Lindy,
Here is why Bush chooses to Veto this bill,

The President has threatened on multiple occasions to veto the emergency supplemental if it includes war timelines or other policy restrictions, or if it goes over his arbitrary budget cap. The Administration has also expressed objections to the GI Bill based on concerns about retention -- basically, they believe that if a GI Bill benefit is too good, it'll reward veterans too richly for their service and draw them away from re-enlisting. http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/86306/


And McCain is once again in step with him,

The Arizona senator opposes the scholarship measure, as does the Pentagon, because it applies to people who serve just three years. He fears that would encourage people to leave the military after only one enlistment even as the U.S. fights two wars and is trying to increase the size of the Army and Marine Corps. http://asia.news.yahoo.com/080524/ap/d90s35h00.html

They are afraid that it will cause them to have to reenstate the draft to continue their illegal war....

If McCain gets in with his 100 year war mentality the draft will be fact, there will be no choice.

As a Vet, McCain's actions of late appall me..
He is selling out his brothers for a neo-con agenda in order to get elected. Its disgusting and almost unforgivable in my mind.

Hey Lindy, if Vet education benefits are so good. Why is it that I have had to get the NAFTA program to pay for my books and tuition, and still struggle so hard to pay my bills?

Your lack of knowledge on this subject is immense..

Fanta, do you support Congress tacting on pork or other political stuff to a war supplemental or defense budget stuff?

That isnt why Bush chooses to veto it.

The reasons are as I posted. They are straight from his and McCains mouth. This is not the first time a version of this bill was placed on his desk. This time however I believe they have enough Repub to override the veto. I hope

I have a list of the Pork that was in the bill he vetoed early in Nov. You tell me if they were bad!

_a 20 percent increase over Bush's request for job training programs.

_$1.4 billion more than Bush's request for health research at the National Institutes of Health, a 5 percent increase.

_$2.4 billion for heating subsidies for the poor, $480 million more than Bush requested.

_$665 million for grants to community action agencies; Bush sought to kill the program outright.

_$63.6 billion for the Education Department, a 5 percent increase over 2007 spending and 8 percent more than Bush asked for.

_a $225 million increase for community health centers.

Mind you most of that through bipartisan cooperation has been eliminated. Now his statements why he will veto it are purely to keep Soldiers from leaving service and to continue his war without enacting a draft. Something he knows if he is forced to do will mean the end to his illegal war in Iraq!

The Senate overwhelmingly approved a landmark increase in college aid to veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan today.

President Bush has promised to veto the legislation, championed by Sen. Jim Webb, a Democrat. But the 75-22 margin, more than the two-thrids majority needed to override a veto, suggests momentum in favor of the Webb bill may be unstoppable.

Along with the enhanced GI Bill, which would provide a monthly stipend for living expenses plus tuition aid equal to the most expensive public college in each veteran's home state, the legislation approved today provides new aid to victims of Hurricane Katrina on the Gulf Coast.


http://www.military.com/news/article/senate-passes-webb-gi-bill.html?wh=wh

Same web site,

The benefit, approved by the House last week, is tailored to roughly match the original GI bill, which financed the college educations of more than 7 million World War II veterans.

Graham contended that would give thousands of troops needed in the war on terrorism a new incentive to leave the military.

"I am not going to sit on the sidelines and, under feel-good politics, create a new program that will result in hurting retention at a time when America desperately needs to increase the ability to retain this force," he said.



Damn Republicans

Well, except for the Republicans who voted for the new GI Bill!

Thanks lindy. I did read up on the bill. I don't know where they are getting there sources. I use to go to LSU and tuition was only about 5k a year. LSU is a very large school as well. The new bill wants to double their money giving them 20k a yr plus a monthly stipend. Doesn't that seem a little much?

I mean it says they want to give them enough to get into the most expensive private colleges. I think that is a bit over the top and can completely understand why some people would want to vote against this bill.

`Sec. 3313. Educational assistance: amount; payment

`(a) Payment- The Secretary shall pay to each individual entitled to educational assistance under this chapter who is pursuing an approved program of education (other than a program covered by subsections (e) through (i)) the amounts specified in subsection (c) to meet the expenses of such individual's subsistence, tuition, fees, and other educational costs for pursuit of such program of education.

`(b) Approved Programs of Education- Except as provided in subsections (g) through (i), a program of education is an approved program of education for purposes of this chapter if the program of education is approved for purposes of chapter 30 of this title.

`(c) Amount of Educational Assistance- The amounts payable under this subsection for pursuit of an approved program of education are amounts as follows:

`(1) In the case of an individual entitled to educational assistance under this chapter by reason of section 3311(b)(1) or 3311(b)(2) of this title, amounts as follows:

`(A) An amount equal to the established charges for the program of education, except that the amount payable under this subparagraph may not exceed the maximum amount of established charges regularly charged in-State students for full-time pursuit of programs of education by the public institution of higher education in the State in which the individual is enrolled that has the highest rate of regularly-charged established charges for programs of education among all public institutions of higher education in such State.

`(B) A monthly housing stipend in an amount equal to the monthly amount of the basic allowance for housing payable under section 403 of title 37 for a member with dependents in pay grade E-5 residing in the military housing area that encompasses all or the majority portion of the ZIP code area in which is located the institution of higher education at which the individual is enrolled.

`(C) A yearly stipend for books, supplies, equipment, and other educational costs in the amount of $1,000.

Nowhere does it say a specific amount. If the tuition at LSU is what you say (?), and that is where the soldier chooses to go, then that is all they will pay for tuition. Plus housing, plus (c).

What bill did you read???

Here it is!! http://capwiz.com/military/webreturn/?url=http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:S.22:

This speaks for itself,

Tuition for the 2007-2008 school year is $10722 for Louisiana residents and $19818 for nonresidents.


http://www.law.lsu.edu/index.cfm?geaux=thelsulawexperience.tuitionandfinancialaid

Anything else????

Question,

Where did you get your information??

Thats the law school.

Here is the actual school.

http://www.bgtplan.lsu.edu/trend/geninfo/tuition/fttuit&fees.htm

its about $2400 for residents a semester and $6500 for non residents

The main bill benefits include:

* Four academic years of educational benefits for an approved program up to the cost of the most expensive in-state public school.
* 50% coverage of additional tuition at more expensive private schools.
* A monthly living stipend based on housing costs in the area.
* A benefit elegibility period of 15 years after leaving active duty (compared to 10 years in the current Montgomery GI Bill).
* Elimination of the $1200 program enrollment fee paid by the veteran at the beginning of military service currently required by the Montgomery GI Bill.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-9/11_Veterans_Educational_Assistance_Act_of_2008#Bill_summary

The link I provided is the actual bill!
Not Wikipedia....

You never asked me if it was the bill. You asked me where I got my info.

If you do know so much, then please feel free to explain how this is different from the original GI bill.

I have come across on a few sites saying that the old bill didn't pay more than about 39k in 4 years. Thats plenty of money for college.

My whole original point was that someone was complaining about how Bush/McCain voted and couldn't explain how the bill was different or why they voted that way. There may have been legit reasons for them to vote this way when more information was provided.

The original bill?
What year??

There have been many...
When I served it was a match program. You put $1 in a fund and the gov would match it.
If you served 4 years and saved $10,000, they matched it and you had $20,000. No more, and it had to be used within a certain time frame and if it wasnt you lost it.

It has changed many times so you'd have to ask different people. The bill Lindy referred to ended with the Vietnam war, if they even had the same bill that was provided to WWII vets.