Community > General Religion Chat

Topic: Free will? Does God have a plan for everyone?
Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Tue 05/27/08 04:58 PM Edited by Dragoness on Tue 05/27/08 04:59 PM
You are still associating free will to doing the impossible or breaking laws. Stop it. Free will is choices you make every day. If you make a choice and do not have the energy to do it or fail at it, the point is you had the free will to choose it. But if I make a free will choice to do something to get to kicked off, it is my free will to do it, it is my free will to follow the rules, it is my free will to address you on this post. It is my free will to choose to read your post. My free will is in play while I type this I could choose to mispell every word, or type in caps,etc.... and so on...... free will. It is your free will to choose to connect free will to criminal activity or impossible scenerios, etc... Your free will is in place to read my post or not, to address it or not. That is all free will. ok "Dragoness"..then I will ask you the ultimate question ...if you truely have 'Free Will" and not under the influence of the collective then clearly you have the "Free Will" to form your own rational thought that is independent of the influence of the collective and that no one else ever said ... so let us hear that one rational thought So now you want to relate free will to individuality? Originality? That is not free will, that is individuality or originality. I am a very original person, I form my own conclusions to information given, regardless to the crowd but that is still not free will. Free will is the choice to do something or say something or write something, drink something, eat something, it is a choice. Free will is the choice you make not the originality of the choice, or the individuality of the choice. Free will can be a choice to follow the crowd, it is still free will. One makes the choice to follow, free will.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 05/27/08 05:06 PM
You are still associating free will to doing the impossible or breaking laws. Stop it. Free will is choices you make every day. If you make a choice and do not have the energy to do it or fail at it, the point is you had the free will to choose it. But if I make a free will choice to do something to get to kicked off, it is my free will to do it, it is my free will to follow the rules, it is my free will to address you on this post. It is my free will to choose to read your post. My free will is in play while I type this I could choose to mispell every word, or type in caps,etc.... and so on...... free will. It is your free will to choose to connect free will to criminal activity or impossible scenerios, etc... Your free will is in place to read my post or not, to address it or not. That is all free will. ok "Dragoness"..then I will ask you the ultimate question ...if you truely have 'Free Will" and not under the influence of the collective then clearly you have the "Free Will" to form your own rational thought that is independent of the influence of the collective and that no one else ever said ... so let us hear that one rational thought So now you want to relate free will to individuality? Originality? That is not free will, that is individuality or originality. I am a very original person, I form my own conclusions to information given, regardless to the crowd but that is still not free will. Free will is the choice to do something or say something or write something, drink something, eat something, it is a choice. Free will is the choice you make not the originality of the choice, or the individuality of the choice. Free will can be a choice to follow the crowd, it is still free will. One makes the choice to follow, free will. well "Dragoness" now you are contradicting yourself..first you said 'Free Will" is the person making choices in their everyday life..now you are saying that 'Free Will" is not individuality or originality ...so if the individual is not the one making the "Free Will" choices then explain who is

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Tue 05/27/08 05:17 PM
You are still associating free will to doing the impossible or breaking laws. Stop it. Free will is choices you make every day. If you make a choice and do not have the energy to do it or fail at it, the point is you had the free will to choose it. But if I make a free will choice to do something to get to kicked off, it is my free will to do it, it is my free will to follow the rules, it is my free will to address you on this post. It is my free will to choose to read your post. My free will is in play while I type this I could choose to mispell every word, or type in caps,etc.... and so on...... free will. It is your free will to choose to connect free will to criminal activity or impossible scenerios, etc... Your free will is in place to read my post or not, to address it or not. That is all free will. ok "Dragoness"..then I will ask you the ultimate question ...if you truely have 'Free Will" and not under the influence of the collective then clearly you have the "Free Will" to form your own rational thought that is independent of the influence of the collective and that no one else ever said ... so let us hear that one rational thought So now you want to relate free will to individuality? Originality? That is not free will, that is individuality or originality. I am a very original person, I form my own conclusions to information given, regardless to the crowd but that is still not free will. Free will is the choice to do something or say something or write something, drink something, eat something, it is a choice. Free will is the choice you make not the originality of the choice, or the individuality of the choice. Free will can be a choice to follow the crowd, it is still free will. One makes the choice to follow, free will. well "Dragoness" now you are contradicting yourself..first you said 'Free Will" is the person making choices in their everyday life..now you are saying that 'Free Will" is not individuality or originality ...so if the individual is not the one making the "Free Will" choices then explain who is Now you are being silly. Of course, it is the choice made by an individual. Originality is not necessarily free will. Just like I stated before it is free will to follow the crowd, because one can choose to follow or choose to lead.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Tue 05/27/08 05:19 PM
Funches is a clone. He has no will. He is not free. He is under the complete control of someone who obviously wishes to remain annonymouse. JB

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Tue 05/27/08 05:26 PM
Funches is a clone. He has no will. He is not free. He is under the complete control of someone who obviously wishes to remain annonymouse. JB So, he is trapped within himself by his own self inflicted limitations? Or he believes free will means that one can magically control ones environment to bend to our wishes? Controlling our environment has nothing to do with free will. All beings regardless to where they are have to live within the limits of their environment but that is not free will it is the rule of universe. We choose within those limitations but what we choose is still our free will.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Tue 05/27/08 05:30 PM
Funches is a clone. He has no will. He is not free. He is under the complete control of someone who obviously wishes to remain annonymouse. JB So, he is trapped within himself by his own self inflicted limitations? Or he believes free will means that one can magically control ones environment to bend to our wishes? Controlling our environment has nothing to do with free will. All beings regardless to where they are have to live within the limits of their environment but that is not free will it is the rule of universe. We choose within those limitations but what we choose is still our free will. I agree. The will is for the purpose of self direction. I have told him that but he does not have the will to understand.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 05/27/08 05:34 PM
Now you are being silly. Of course, it is the choice made by an individual. Originality is not necessarily free will. Just like I stated before it is free will to follow the crowd, because one can choose to follow or choose to lead. "Dragoness" ..first you said that "Free Will" is not about individuality or Originality ...but now you are saying that Originality is not neccesarily 'Free "Will" ..see how you are contradicting yourself... and then you said that 'Free Will" is not about individuality but then you say that the individual makes the choices ..that's another contradiction..... and it's a contradiction to claim to have 'Free Will" but then claim that you can't even form your own original thoughts ..so far you have made three contradictions ..."Dragoness....face the truth..you are borg..and have been assimulate into the collective

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Tue 05/27/08 05:35 PM
Funches is a clone. He has no will. He is not free. He is under the complete control of someone who obviously wishes to remain annonymouse. JB So, he is trapped within himself by his own self inflicted limitations? Or he believes free will means that one can magically control ones environment to bend to our wishes? Controlling our environment has nothing to do with free will. All beings regardless to where they are have to live within the limits of their environment but that is not free will it is the rule of universe. We choose within those limitations but what we choose is still our free will. I agree. The will is for the purpose of self direction. I have told him that but he does not have the will to understand. He doesn't feel free that much is certain. He feels bogged down by the limitations he sees but I feel that if we dwell on the natural limitations of life, we fail to see the freedoms. You know I see the cup have full..lol

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 05/27/08 05:35 PM
Funches is a clone. He has no will. He is not free. He is under the complete control of someone who obviously wishes to remain annonymouse. JB so "JennieBean" are you saying that you agree with 'Dragoness" that "Free Will" is not about individuality and/or Originality?

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 05/27/08 05:37 PM
Funches is a clone. He has no will. He is not free. He is under the complete control of someone who obviously wishes to remain annonymouse. JB So, he is trapped within himself by his own self inflicted limitations? Or he believes free will means that one can magically control ones environment to bend to our wishes? Controlling our environment has nothing to do with free will. All beings regardless to where they are have to live within the limits of their environment but that is not free will it is the rule of universe. We choose within those limitations but what we choose is still our free will. I agree. The will is for the purpose of self direction. I have told him that but he does not have the will to understand. wow my ears are burning

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Tue 05/27/08 05:44 PM
Now you are being silly. Of course, it is the choice made by an individual. Originality is not necessarily free will. Just like I stated before it is free will to follow the crowd, because one can choose to follow or choose to lead. "Dragoness" ..first you said that "Free Will" is not about individuality or Originality ...but now you are saying that Originality is not neccesarily 'Free "Will" ..see how you are contradicting yourself... and then you said that 'Free Will" is not about individuality but then you say that the individual makes the choices ..that's another contradiction..... and it's a contradiction to claim to have 'Free Will" but then claim that you can't even form your own original thoughts ..so far you have made three contradictions ..."Dragoness....face the truth..you are borg..and have been assimulate into the collective Okay, I spit back at you the words you put into my mouth. Individuality is not necessarily free will, one can choose to be like everyone else, it is still their free will because they can choose that or not or be original and choose something else completely. Originality is not necessarily free will because people can choose to follow the crowd, free will, or they can choose not to, free will. Free will is the choice we make within the environment we have available to us.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Tue 05/27/08 05:44 PM
Funches is a clone. He has no will. He is not free. He is under the complete control of someone who obviously wishes to remain annonymouse. JB so "JennieBean" are you saying that you agree with 'Dragoness" that "Free Will" is not about individuality and/or Originality? Indeed I think that without the will there would be no individuality or originality ~~*but the will is not about being individual or original. It is the power to decide what the person will do. That is all it is. It is the power of self direction. The power to decide, (in spite of programing, in spite of influences in spite of choices or consequences.) JB

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 05/27/08 06:02 PM
so "JennieBean" are you saying that you agree with 'Dragoness" that "Free Will" is not about individuality and/or Originality? Indeed I think that without the will there would be no individuality or originality ~~ so don't that means that the reason that neither you or Dragoness can form your own original rational thoughts is because you each lack the will to do so

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Tue 05/27/08 06:14 PM
so "JennieBean" are you saying that you agree with 'Dragoness" that "Free Will" is not about individuality and/or Originality? Indeed I think that without the will there would be no individuality or originality ~~ so don't that means that the reason that neither you or Dragoness can form your own original rational thoughts is because you each lack the will to do so NO. We always form our own original thoughts. It is you who are the robot clone, remember. Now go plug yourself in and recharge, then reboot. You'll feel better.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 05/27/08 06:32 PM
NO. We always form our own original thoughts. It is you who are the robot clone, remember. Now go plug yourself in and recharge, then reboot. You'll feel better. ok..I'll reboot as soon as you tell me one of your original rational thoughts..come on 'JennieBean" ..you can do it...come on do it for the gipper..tell me one...er...pretty please?

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 05/27/08 06:41 PM
Okay, I spit back at you the words you put into my mouth. Individuality is not necessarily free will, one can choose to be like everyone else, it is still their free will because they can choose that or not or be original and choose something else completely. Originality is not necessarily free will because people can choose to follow the crowd, free will, or they can choose not to, free will. Free will is the choice we make within the environment we have available to us. "Dragoness" without Individuality or Originality would only make someone part of the herd mentality ..and then to claim one has "Free Will" only proves irrationality

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Tue 05/27/08 06:44 PM
Okay, I spit back at you the words you put into my mouth. Individuality is not necessarily free will, one can choose to be like everyone else, it is still their free will because they can choose that or not or be original and choose something else completely. Originality is not necessarily free will because people can choose to follow the crowd, free will, or they can choose not to, free will. Free will is the choice we make within the environment we have available to us. "Dragoness" without Individuality or Originality would only make someone part of the herd mentality ..and then to claim one has "Free Will" only proves irrationality I never said anything about someone not having individuality nor originality, I even said I am a very original person if you read back. Originality and individuality can play a part in free will or a person can choose to follow others in their choices but it is still there own free will to do so.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Tue 05/27/08 06:48 PM
NO. We always form our own original thoughts. It is you who are the robot clone, remember. Now go plug yourself in and recharge, then reboot. You'll feel better. ok..I'll reboot as soon as you tell me one of your original rational thoughts..come on 'JennieBean" ..you can do it...come on do it for the gipper..tell me one...er...pretty please? My will has freely decided not to jump through any of your hoops. You are not my trainer or handler. (I am yours. Now go reboot like the good little robot you are.) When you come back you can show me your bone. JB

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Tue 05/27/08 06:53 PM Edited by Dragoness on Tue 05/27/08 06:55 PM
NO. We always form our own original thoughts. It is you who are the robot clone, remember. Now go plug yourself in and recharge, then reboot. You'll feel better. ok..I'll reboot as soon as you tell me one of your original rational thoughts..come on 'JennieBean" ..you can do it...come on do it for the gipper..tell me one...er...pretty please? My will has freely decided not to jump through any of your hoops. You are not my trainer or handler. (I am yours. Now go reboot like the good little robot you are.) When you come back you can show me your bone. JB Why does he think an original rational thought is somehow related to free will? Free will can be an original rational choice or it doesn't have to be. Free will is a choice. Thought plays into it probably most of the time but a person can make a choice based on just a feeling, an impulse, etc.... So thinking first does not always happen before a choice is made, most of the time, yes, but not always. Oh and you did a great job there of exercising your free will to not answer his question..lol

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 05/27/08 07:01 PM
Okay, I spit back at you the words you put into my mouth. Individuality is not necessarily free will, one can choose to be like everyone else, it is still their free will because they can choose that or not or be original and choose something else completely. Originality is not necessarily free will because people can choose to follow the crowd, free will, or they can choose not to, free will. Free will is the choice we make within the environment we have available to us. "Dragoness" without Individuality or Originality would only make someone part of the herd mentality ..and then to claim one has "Free Will" only proves irrationality I never said anything about someone not having individuality nor originality, I even said I am a very original person if you read back. Originality and individuality can play a part in free will or a person can choose to follow others in their choices but it is still there own free will to do so. you said that "Free Will" was not individuality or originality ..and beside how can you yourself claim to be original if you can't even form your own original thoughts....