Hi Star, welcome to the forums. This particular forum is faily slow. It consists mostly of me rambling and Jill trying to cast spells on me to make me stop. Hi Star, |
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The reason for Stewarts specific symbolism is because he is expressing the specific structure required to stimulate and "Awaken" specific unconscious cultural programing, the "racial consciousness" that Carl Jung alludes to.
This is how the underworld is accessed, and is the same techniques employed in advertising as well as propaganda/manipulation that regimes like the nazis and communists employed. I have learned that the imagery that Stewart employs does not work well for non northern europeans! the technique works, but other cultures need to employ their own cultural symbolism for maximum efficiency. check out Thomas the Rhymer, and his story, he journeys to the underworld for seven years, and returns a prophet/poet! he is an historical figure, very real! (Thomas, Lord Earl of Erculdune and lairmont, late 1200"s CE. scotland) |
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Please understand, he Canaanites were an indoeuropean people yes, celtic absolutely not.
also understand that the celts were an amalgamation of different peoples, unified by art, language and religion, Celt is a culture not a race, for example, the Helvetii, now called the Swiss, the Gauls, now France, The Celtiberians, now Spain, the gaels, now Ireland and Scotland, the Parisii, Brigante Cymry, Silure, Iceni, Catuvellanii, Dobunii , Tuetates and Cimbrii are just some of the names that made up the Celtic peoples, ( I would suggest that modern north american civilization is in fact Celtic in influence, structure and example right down to the variety of peoples and races that make it up!) The Celtic culture was the dominate culture north of the Mediterranean from aprox 1000 bce until the second century bce, Hallstatt culture peaked by about 850 bce, La Tene peaked in mainland Europe by 200 bce, in Eire 500 c.e. this stuff is only relevant, in terms of understanding the history, and culture, so that one may understand the myths and symbolisms. bear in mind that the stories of the bloodthirsty nature of the Celts is told only by the Mediterranean peoples, the archeological and anthropological evidence itself says quite different things, for example, the average per acre yield of wheat and barley that the Gauls managed, exceeds the current per acre yield! the art and skill of pattern welding in the manufacture of steel, while others used iron. the sailing ships of the Venetii, (Who Venice is named after) were not equaled until the late renaissance.. In studying the mythology and magickal systems that Celtic culture employed, one must understand the context. sorry, lecture over, it is rude, I apologize, but in my defense, the Celts have been horrendously misrepresented in both classical literature, and in wiccan /new age. The path I follow is one of Celtic reconstruction ism, which has required some Eye opening studies and the truth is far different from what has been taught. |
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an Irish Wolfhound mostly. "gentle when stroked, fierce when provoked," faithful and protective
sometimes an otter, playful and goofy. sometimes a Badger. when angry |
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the point of origin for the celts is in fact the coastal plains on the north of the black sea. (kurgan culture)
The indo aryan peoples spread out north south east and west! to the east they were known as the Jian or Xian by the Chinese and in fact founded the first kingdoms to the dismay of the Chinese, nat geo has a neat special showing the opening of jian cullture tomb! a sixfoot plus redhead man in plaid! and his wife a six foot strawberry blond! so your intuition is on! it was the indo aryans that destroyed the mohenjo daro/ indus valley culture, and conquered india, creating the caste system, and is why for example krishna in the bagavadgita is blond and fought from a chariot. now before you think I am implying some sort of racial superiority or any such garbage, let me be clear, I most emphatically am not! the proto celts and indoaryan people had better weapons, armour, and horses, not to mention were somewhat taller and more aggressive due to their red meat diet, they were a pastoral people, the other civilizations they came in contact with were physically smaller due to their diets, were agricultural, and built cities, Which is superior? I cannot tell, they are radically different, that is all. anyway, also check out Herodotus, Tacitus, and Diodorus Siculus, eye witness contemporaries to the celts. Julius Caesars accounts of the conquest of Gaul is also informative. another mind blowing book is The Key by John Philip Cohane. and America B.C. by Dr. Barry Fell, what we are generally taught and what is actually known are two different things! Ben Dydd Y ceridwen. |
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I am most likely about to offend a lot of people, however, facts are facts!
The Idea of catholic witches is right on. The real survival of traditional European pagan practices and beliefs can be found in the dogma and rituals of the catholic church. a great many of the saints are in fact pagan deities, from holy sites, attributes to feast days. This is not intended to belittle, insult or attack in any way. so if I offended anyone I had no real intention of that. |
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Abracadabra, if you truly wish to learn of the fae, understand that the Tuatha de Dannaan, or Daoine Sidhe, both the same people, were in fact a people, the megalithic culture. primarily the urnfield/beaker culture.
It is my belief, that the megalith culture was the basis for the legends of Atlantis. Gerhard Herne has an excellent book called The Celts that I would also recommend. There is also the papers of Dr. Raimund Karl, an anthropologist specializing in the Celts. you can google him and find his stuff on the net. I believe he is currently teaching at the university of north Wales... He used to be director of Celtic studies at the University of Vienna. and has an informative discussion list called Celtic L, Ben Dydd Y Llev Velus! |
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there is a danger of confusion when mixing various cultural archetypes and traditions.
magick is a language of symbolism, when mixing symbolism's, you create a sense of confusion. language is about communication, you do not communicate adequately when mixing metaphors so to speak. this is not to say that mixing various systems won't work, I am speaking more in terms of efficiency. I too have a background in the sciences, studied Anthropology in school, as well as physics. to my mind magick is a jungian approach to symbolic manipulation with the subtlties of quantum mechanics describing the interactions. assuming that one cultural symbolic tradition is the only model would be rather foolish, however, understanding that the symbolisms are truly only effective at full efficiency when the symbolisms are instinctively unconsciously understood, this only comes from immersion in the culture that created the symbolism being applied. Ie "growing up" in the environment controlled by the symbolism. some ideas do not translate at all. a good example would be the idea of reincarnation, which prior to the 19th century period of colonialism, was unknown in European culture prior to the conquest of the Indian sub continent. the ancient Europeans, based upon the burial customs as well as myths, believed in transmigration, a form of spiritual evolution, culminating in existence as "human" followed by the afterlife, Hades, Valhalla, Hel, Tir nan na Gogh etc. the point being, the two Ideas, reincarnation, and transmigration are actually quite disparate. the mixing of those ideas cannot be efficient, the terms and variables are radically different. |
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At the risk of being pretentious... I would suggest a very intensely good book to begin shamanic studies would be, The Underworld Initiation by R.J. Stewart.
this is from the traditional European perspective, not wiccan or native american. |
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Are there any Celtic based pagans out there?
I know I am not alone, " Ny Yl Blyth, Gul ken Aval Ages Aval Blyth..." |
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We became best friends... still talk daily, She is married and in Cali!
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Hi Ruth, Hi Jill, pleased ta meet ya!
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Thanx,
is celtic prechristian, based on actual archeology, anthropology, and history, is not wicca. |
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Hi!
I'm brand new here, does Celtic reconstructionist count? Ben dydd Y Llev Velus! |
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