Zen koans, or ridddles used for instruction, appear paradoxical due to tne nature of zen. This one, taken from here: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/awakening101/mumonkan.html is a double-bind:

Kyogen said, "It (Zen) is like a man (monk) hanging by his teeth in a tree over a precipice. His hands grasp no branch, his feet rest on no limb, and under the tree another man asks him, 'Why did Bodhidharma come to China from the West (India)?' If the man in the tree does not answer, he misses the question, and if he answers, he falls and loses his life. Now what shall he do?"

A koan that has made its way into common usage is:

"What is the sound of one hand clapping?"

I read "Talks w/ Students" and loved it.

This reminds of "look as if you do not see and listen as if you do not hear". Pretty sure I mangled that. Biblical, I think.

Here's another that I more or less stole from someone on here:

We need to be self aware before we can be aware that we are aware.

I think the above is the same type of paradox, a catch-22, as this really common one:

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

To believe in this livin', is just a hard way to go...

I yam wut I yam an' that's all that I yam. toot-toot.

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Paradox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A paradox is a true statement or group of statements that leads to a contradiction or a situation which defies intuition...

for sure!

haaaa- Now that's funny and serious. perfect.

-The fact that I now have free will was predetermined. (thanks JB:)

-The following statement is true: everything I say is false.

Others?

I guess you can tell, I don't have much to do today. :)

>>>Well I dont think physics makes any claims in regards to desire.And as such the intelligence and consciousness required for desire is what makes this a tricky topic.<<<

I agree. I guess I was just asking myself if truth is a "universal objective" for humans. Aside from the fact that some consider this to be the prime objective of human existence, it seems to me we have a need to continually determine what's "true" just to function in our daily lives. I agree that the desire for truth appears to be bound up in human "intelligence and consciousness". I'll point out though that some believe our very existence is a function of the universe's attempt to know its self. I don't really have any feelings about that either way, but it's fun to consider.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Several things-

Man, absolutes are SO hard to pin down, huh? For whatever reason, it seems to be an inherent part of our nature to seek them out.

While I'm hoping Billy will help me out with this because it involves math as well as logic, everyone's thoughts are welcome.

In classical physics, do "if/then" statements (accepting that "if" implies "however") lead to "a universally desired outcome"- truth, and a "universally agreed upon outcome"- proof, at least until proved wrong? Would the most highly reduced formula used to achieve the outcome be "universally" considered "best?"

As a note, I think the word "better" often leads to confusion because it's SO easily used subjectively, although I think every one here has been using it the same way: "most effective." (Ha, Sky, this is where you may accuse me of semantic sophistry again if you wish. Sophistry is one of my favorite things! I've had a love affair going with the absurd lately; I think it's that damned Taoism.) :)

Oh crap, I just remembered Jack Nicholson's line in "A Few Good Men"- "You don't WANT the truth!" Shiii.....

Edit: And truth is no less subjective than "better." ...never mind :)

Wet, in the bathtub of a strange house, with your underwear on backwards and a bag of MacDonald hamburgers laying on the floor beside you.

filmfreek, I quit in my early thirties too. Congratulations and good luck!

eek! 'howdy neighbor.

Too long/honest maybe?

>>>I am the beginning of sorrow, and the end of sickness. You cannot express happiness without me, yet I am in the midst of crosses. I am always in risk, yet never in danger. You may find me in the sun, but I am never out of darkness.

The letter s

I know this question was addressed to your self, but if I may, I'd like to state why I do it- that is, by stating and defending my ideas, while comparing and contrasting them with those of others, I wish to delve more deeply into the true nature of my own beliefs. I can't really think of any other good reason to be here, other than for social reasons. Now that I've butted in, I'm butting out.

When I went to bed last night, I assumed this thread had died a peaceful death and gone to heaven. Is this proof of reincarnation? :) More later.

'No kind of fun like attempting to prove the unprovable- except maybe trying to describe the ineffable. It's no wonder some people balk when philosophy is referred to as science. And no, I don't want to argue that. :)

Dang Invisible, I took you seriously. That's actually pretty close to what I DO believe.

....when nI=-nII and μr,I/εr,I= μr,II/ εr,II. ?

Thanks, but it's all Greek to me, har-har.