we have got churches and temples dedicated to all sorts of things,,yeck nowdays most anything is made into a religion. Since religion is supposedly tax free and "non-profit" my friends and I have decided to start the Church of the Dorito. Heck with the tithes and "non-profit" income think of all the good that could be done in the name of the delicious snack product's name..seriously people is religion just another form of buisness and government that profits from the masses shoveling cash at it or there any legitamate reason we should pay such institutions any mind at all? Let me know what you think...

The amount you borrowed is irrelavent. The bank will no doubt correct the error when it conducts an audit. What matters here is why one would rush to repay a favor by increasing your debt to others. In choosing to do so one has entrapped themselves in a more complicated situtation that will no doubt have negative consquences. Choices are not something you rush into.In reality the bank would correct the error and one would still end up in debt to sally for the original amount loaned. In the end you still have to answer for your choices and nobody gets a free ride.

You might also try magazines like Sky and Telescope. You can find several magazines and books at places like Borders, Barnes and Nobles or Half Priced Books. When it comes to books, it all comes down to what specifically your trying to find out about Astronomy. History, equipment, research, Messier Objects, Planets, Constellations, there are hundreds of topics in the field.

I believe it was L. Ron Hubbard himself who said the easiest way to make money is to invent a religion.....just something to think about...

I feel both are of the same nature in the sense that they involve seeking out absolute truth in the universe. What science can not physically prove philosophy can allow us to reason and deduece from the universe around us. What philosophy can't reason and deduece science can sometimes provide a way to test and eliminate possiblities in theories to clear up confusion.

Science as a religion....I would have a hard time buying that one. As of yet I have not seen anyone building temples to Issac Newton, Einstein or anything else associated to the scientific method.
However do people place more faith in what science reveals rather than religious texts, this is true. It does not mean however that Science in some way has become a diety or God to them.

Wouldn't that make Cows,Milk and Cottage Cheese some sort of unholy trinity?

Death is another association for change. Essentially all things go through cycles of change and development. In fact the 13th card in the Tarot deck is Death, which most people mistake to actually mean death when really all it means is a dramtic change, needed change or sudden change is about to take place. I like referencing the I Ching when it comes to change and needed wisdom as well. These changes also involve choice. In some instances in order for us to trully change we must first choose to let go of something we once did, believed or thought. I agree with art that it is a reasonable analogy for human development in as far as the natural changes we go through and the cycles of life we all go through. There is another stage to human development which i think she was trying to touch on with the caterpillar analogy. It is the concious development in us to let go of things in order to progress foward.

I see where your coming from in your arguement. I choose to believe however that Lao-tzu meant that we could accomplish more by being humble and not placing ourselves above others or thinking that we are somehow better or more enlightened then someone else. In Aikido we teach that a weakness can actually be a source of strength in certain situtaions. Water may reside at the lowest places on earth but never underestimate its hidden strength. Another good Taoist i would recommend you read up on is Lieh-tzu. You might find his passive methods to leadership quite interesting. I would never dismiss someone as ignorant but i choose not to get rapped in silly arguements that have nothing to do with the OP.

what?!?!? Where in my statement did i imply much less suggest that? First off i am a Taoist not buddhist and why would i want anyone to think that?

Don't worry about it art, he was only trying to insult me. He just doesn't seem to like Taoism or Taoist, hopefully he meant nothing against you or the thread.

Have one for me too. I live in a nursing home, and with my diabetes its kinda a bad idea to have alcohol. Haven't had a sip in five years now. Kinda wish most of the people i knew were still alive and we could sit around, hit some sake and crack up about all this. Live your life to the best of your ability cause it is way too short as it is. Just enjoy it is the best advice i can offer anyone. Everybody gets in a hurry and forgets to savor and enjoy things. Thanks for putting up with my novel there.

And here i just thought bright colors were nature's warning lights, kinda counter productive to have something that most species in nature who have it says watch out im poisonous if you eat me! Butterflies must of been drama queens in a past life or something.
" Look at me! I make that ant hill look like a soup kitchen don't I!"
lol

Which would you rather be: the moth or the moth ball?
the fly or the fly swatter? either way its a pretty raw deal when you get the two of them together...

Yeah i can totally relate. I just got through giving a lengthy attempt at an explaination of it and how i in incoporate it into my thinking and beliefs on the 60 absolute proofs that god exists thread. I am pretty sure alot of people are going what the HUH!! or that i am responsible for some poor person having a stroke, oh well more bad karma....i geuss, As much i got already racked on me in this go around. Diabetic, have seizures and i am stuck living in a nursing home. I don't want to even imagine what karmic wheels brought that upon me. None the less despite my best efforts what Lao-tzu said is true, Those who say do not know and those who know do not say. NOt becuase they don't want to say, its just their smart enough to know that its pointless to try...lol. I just keep trying hoping someone out their understands what i am trying say but failing miserably at..lol

Oh no don't worry, i am not offended, I see where you going with. Yeah some might view it as a cop out as it were. Everything is a personal choice i think when you get down to it. I was just stating that one could logically and with reason choose to believe in something regardless of substantial proof. Your right that in a sense by using that arguement I am also saying that i don't believe in something. When it comes to me personally, I am a philosophical Taoist. I choose not adhere myself to any religion or its deity. I even offered what is closer to my actual beliefs and precepts in another thread, i'll post it below becuase it will mesh with this threads flow and give you a better idea where i am coming from and where i am going with this thread.

Who or what said that there had to be a creator or creators? Why do we constantly try to give a form of personality, an ego or human like quality to something in order to give ourselves a sense of security that this is all planned out and everything is really under someone else's control? What is wrong with accepting that there is choas in the universe? Does everything need a reason or plan? When do we realize that the plan maybe is that there is no plan? My parents came to me when i was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes because it was part of "God's" plan. My father even tryed to convince me that "God" was punishing me for something i had done or would later do. It didn't take me long to realize that was a load of bull. I personally don't need some form of reassurance to convince myself that things are under control. I find more peace in accepting who and what i am is not because of somebody's grand scheme but because it just is. I can handle that and that is all i need to deal with what i can not explain or understand completely. Let me put it another way. Stories seem to work best so i will go that route. There once was a zen master who was preparing to pass on. He looked through his pupils to see who was best suited to take his place as head of the temple. He narrowed his options down to two. One was a very bright and intelligent leader. The other was a devoted monk of many years and acted as the temple's cook. The master decided to test them with a simple koan to determine who would succeed him. He has them bring a table in and place a glass half filled with water on it. He then had them enter individually to test them. He had the intelligent leader come in first. He pointed at the glass and said what is this? The pupil took a few minutes to ponder the koan. He then turned to the master and said," It is that which is before us in this existence and we must acknowledge it and try to understand it." The master released him and had the cook come in. He then posed the same koan to him. The cook looked at the glass only a second. He then grasped it, drank the water and threw the glass out of the temple. As he turned to leave he told the master," That is it." and left. Now i leave you all with a koan of your own. Who did the master choose to succeed him and why?

Now some might be a bit preplexed as i could argue for belief in a higher power yet turn around and question the nesscity of a "creator". Really there is no conflict in my mind when it comes to this. My thinking is if there is a source from which all things came that it most likely be of something beyond a human nature or equivalence. I choose to think that this source as it were would be something that goes beyond what religion uses a way to associate humanity with the divine. A source that for lack of better words that connects all things, resonates through them, is what represents the absolutes truths in the universe and yet is devoid of any mind,ego,or personality of its own. Lao-tzu put it best when he was trying to describe what i am trying to a feel i am still coming up short. He said," I call it the Tao because i do not know what to call it in words that would encompass what it is completely." I choose to think that that this source, Tao for lack of a word which would suffice. Its not fear of the unknown that compells my thinking. Rather it is a realization of which i know human concepts and words will only fail to bring about that realization for another unless they experience it themselves. It drives me to question everything, embrace the unknown and the fact i don't understand and know much about it and everything else in the universe. I know i have throughly confused most people but I get a tranquil calm from simply just being and knowing that it will change.

do me a favor though if you become a dolphin.. before you all start singing so long and thanks for all the fish and take off for another world. Hang a bright towel on some completely cluesless cactus so i don't get vaporized when they demolish earth to make room for an interstellar bypass. I'll be the one with the all the tequila next to it...lol

Your right smiless ultimately everyone has to choose what works best for them and that's just how it works out. It's kinda like how the waitress asks everybody at the waffle house how they want their eggs done. Only difference is last i checked no one has ever started a holy war over one person liking their's sunny side up and the other person wanting their's scrambled. Its all the same in the end when you think about though. It's just eggs...lol

< The Taoist in me speaking> with any luck and enough of my karma cleared i can enjoy being something less confused and whose existence is little more quiet and unassuming as a human. I was considering being a tree or a plant of some kind.. preferably one that is prickly, stubburn and very hard to get rid of...lol

I would have to say the true wisdom of the caterpillar it that it doesn't try to reason its existence or purpose. It does not struggle to define itself. It simply is and transforms into what it is without question or resistance. It simply is what it is and what it needs to be. Nothing more than that IMO.