It is all in your way of thinking about the so called drug. If you are doing it just to get high, you have the belief that the use of it is for getting high. Those that actually have a mature look on it know that it is not just for getting high.

I personally haven't smoked it in about 2 years and the only reason that I did then was to aleviate some stress that caused tumors in my back to hurt. I don't believe in recreational use of marijuana. I believe in using it for pain, stress etc. In all actuality it does not relieve pain, it relaxes you so that your muscles loosen up, thereby relieving the pressure of the stressed body.

Yet I know people that use it daily in order to cope with the stress in their life. They don't even so much as act high, they are merely relaxed and more able to handle their stress.

Then I know people that do it just for the pleasure of saying, "I'm soooo stoned, dude." Which I think is extremely stupid.

The difference between the 2 sets of people is the fact that one is responsible about it, while the other is not. Which bring the fact to surface that their are in fact 2 similar sets of people that drinks. One set being responsible about it while the other is not.

Which is why we end up having debates like this to begin with. Those of us that can see the fact that drinking is legal considerably more dangerous than the more docile and illegal natural substance called marijuana.

As far as choosing to get high over taking care of your children. That is pretty much passing judgement. Although you are correct, there are those that value marijuana more than they value their children (my ex is one of them), but that is not always the case.

We can make a debate out of pretty much any subject, everyone has their own belief and opinion.

That's really funny. Food is a necessity for living. Therefore, your argument is moot. Besides, if you noticed, there are many states that don't tax food, ohio being one of them. However there are some that do tax food but only slightly, like here in Georgia, there is a 3% food tax which is considerably less than they tax everything else.

So like I said, that argument is irrelevant.

The honest truth is that yes, when you first start taking antidepressants, for whatever reason, they do give you very near the same effect. The same applies for when you stop taking them. They alter your mind. I was on paxil 2 years ago for anxiety because I was stressing out too much. I could no longer afford them and when I stopped taking them I went through some severe withdrawals, that is also when I noticed that my children were literally walking all over my rules. I was too layed back when I was taking the meds. They got away with almost everything. They zone you out. Withdrawal was a dizzy, lightheaded feeling 90% of the time for about 2 weeks.

I feel I would have been better off maybe smoking when I started being stressed out, it is a shorter term relaxation but then that is all one really needs is to chill for a few, not to zone out on legal dope 24/7.

Let's be honest about it. Paxil, zoloft, lexapro as well as many many others are "mind altering drugs". However, they are a legalized, yet controlled substance. You have to have a prescription for them. They mellow you out. I know from experience. I have been on all three.

Then you have St. John's Wort and Gingko Biloba, just to name a couple of the over the counter, legal mind altering substances. What is the difference between these 2 substances and marijuana? Only one difference that I can see. They are all natural herbs, they are all so called "mind altering". Yet marijuana is illegal.

The only reason that marijuana is illegal is because they have not yet found a way to "control" it's distribution so they can tax it. If they can't control distribution they cannot tax it, therefore they "will not" make it legal because everything that is legal has to be taxed. How can you control something when all they have to do is grow it in their home in order to obtain it? The government has to have control of everything as well as to tax everything. Otherwise it is illegal.

Natural herbs should not be illegal and we need to get rid of the stigma surrounding it. Sure it causes a brief "high feeling". However, that feeling is very brief in comparison to the "high" you get from alcohol. Which, by the way, is a man made substance.

The people that act as if they have lost their senses when smoking marijuana, are doing so because it is drummed into their heads that this is such a bad drug. It is not a drug, it is an herb, a natural herb.

That is my opinion.

Okay okay okay.


I only read the first page and this may have been asked on the other 4 or 5 pages but I gotta know. I just gotta know.

If God's Master plan is to test his creations to find out if they are good or not. Tell me how can he be all knowing? I don't get it. Why would he have to test them to find out if they are good or not? If he is all knowing, he should already know.

Like I said, we could go on and on and on with this.

Read what I said again. I did not say "God is magic" I said his power is magic. Even though you claim that magic is a sin and God's power is a miracle. Don't put words in my mouth that I didn't say.

Again, you believe what you like. Believe I am dealing with the devil if you must. I know the truth of the matter. And if God is speaking to you, you must be the new profit. The last I heard he hadn't actually spoken to anyone in centuries. Maybe you take signs as him communing with you. However, if that is the case, how do you know that isn't Satan trying to trick you like you claim he has all of us Pagans?

I cannot keep having this conversation with you. You are all knowing and all seeing, by your own proclamation. You have an answer for everything, even if it really is just a repeat of the last answer to another question. You obviously believe what you preach. Good for you. I, on the other hand, have witnessed the same kind of responses from my children when they try to convince me that they should be allowed to do something that I won't allow. It is all a run around with the same ending.

I personally don't like running around in circles to find the same answers. I like to move forward and find new ones. Therefore, I will continue believing what I believe. End of story.

As I said, this can go on forever, and for some it will.

This will be something people will argue about until the end of time.

Sure I could go on and list every discrepancy in the bible. However, those of you that believe in what it preaches will have an excuse for every one of them. That is fine. But I am not going into it any further.

It is not worth my time to debate this with anyone that clearly just wants me to do as they say like they do as the bible says. If they cannot admit to a simple thing like the magic of God and blah blah blah. Then how can they expect me or any pagan to even consider what they are trying to preach to us. You have to use an open mind with people if you want to make any headway. If you don't then you just butt heads.

I have better things to do with my time. Maybe I will go cast a spell or two.

You are so right LadyValkyrie. I have many friends that are devout Christians. I even paint for an entire family of them. They think I am the sweetest, nicest and one of the most honest people they have ever met. They have even told me that that they cannot say that about more than half of the people that go to their church.

They accept everything about me. Then you have these that cannot accept the fact that other people don't believe as they do.

This forum just caught me on a bad streak of no sleep due to working too many hours, trying to run my own business and work a full time job. I guess I let it get the better of me and I fell into the trap of contemplating with one of them.

I sincerely believe that if they can open their minds up and learn something about our religious beliefs, they would realize that in reality we are not too different from them. We get religious freedom by law, therefore we should be left to practice our religion, just as they are.

Intolerance based on misinformation is one of my weaknesses. I cannot stand it when people presume to know what something is without first learning about it.

I don't even, on a normal basis, bother to discuss this subject with people. I am who I am, I do what I do, I believe what I believe. That is who and what I am and if people don't agree they can be someone else's friend. I don't need nor want the drama. Like I said, it just caught me on a bad day. LOL

I even practice alone because I don't agree with allot of the other pagan's around my areas beliefs. There are good and there are bad in every religion. These people need to get over it, it is a reality that cannot be changed by this type of debating.

Then may I suggest, ACCEPTING that you cannot change someone's beliefs because you think yours are the right ones.

So far as I can see. No-one has any proof of their religion being the RIGHT ONE. Therefore accept that yours is different from ours and quit trying to interfere with it. We don't interfere with your religion. Leave ours alone. Be it right, wrong or a sin. Makes not one bit of difference. You are preaching that everyone has the right to choose by the free will we were given. This is what we choose.

If you are not willing to at least "learn about it", Notice I did not say live it. Learn about it before you go judging it, then you really cannot tell us we are wrong to believe in it.

I do know about christianity. I was raised with it. I read the bible. Still do on occasion. It has some good morality lessons in it. It is all in the way you interpret it. Yes I may have taken some things out of context, to make a point. WE don't look at it the same way you do. That doesn't make you wrong for believing in it. But by the same token it doesn't make us wrong for not believing in it.

You can preach it all day and all night, you won't change my mind. I will still feel as strongly tomorrow as I do today. Just like you.

I raise my kids not to lie, not to cheat, not to steal. I teach them good things. Yes they know my religion and no I do not expect them to choose my religion. They are free to choose whatever religion they are comfortable with. As long as they turn out to be good, decent and law abiding people I don't care what religion they choose. That really sounds like someone that worships Satan.

Unlike a Christian family that requires their children to be the same as them or tells them they are walking the path of Satan.

Your oppinion is just that. But when you try to convince someone that your way is the only way, it is no longer an oppinion. That is where my free will is coming into play and trying to be taken away.

"it is whom you are calling your power from that is the point of this whole thing, if you call upon satan with magic it is evil, if you call on God it is Miracles."



It is all the same. It is power and power is magic. Like it or not. Call it what you will. It is still the same. Calling it different doesn't make it different. This is magic, that is a miracle. If I do magic and something miraculous happens, it doesn't change the fact that it was magic that made it happen.

That is just it. The God of the Christians gives his followers things and tells them not to dare use it. I give you free will but you can only use it, without being a sinner, if you do as I want you to with it. What is the point? I see none. I don't see christians going after budhists like they go after pagans with telling them they are wrong because they don't call their God by the same name. So we see that our god has many names and many forms. So what? It is all the same. We do not do evil with it unless we are only in it for the "magic" Which by the way, the only reason that pagan magic is spelled with a k is to differentiate it from illusionary magic. You know like David Copperfield magic.

When you pray to your God you are relying on the magic of prayer, the magic of your God. Whether you want to believe it or not, that is exactly what it is. You believe that if you live exactly the way your God tells you, he will be good and gracious. He will take care of you. Correct? So where is your free will? The same free will that HE gave to you. The free will that you are not supposed to use for yourself. That isn't free will, sorry to say.

Why are there commandments in the bible? Because the people that wrote it had to find a way to control the people that read it and worship the God in it. Thou shalt not kill (unless your God tells you to in order to prove your loyalty to him). Thou shall not covet thy neighbors wife (unless your neighboring brother dies, then it is your duty). Thou shall not have any other Gods before me (that statement in itself admits there are other "GODS" not only the one in the bible, but ones before him as well, so he isn't the one and ONLY God. He just wants you to worship ONLY him)

And just for the record. If Satan was created by the Christian God, then how were people worshipping any satan "BEFORE" he even existed according to the bible?

It is proven that there was religion long before Christianity. It wasn't wrong before Christianity was created but somehow it became wrong really quickly.

No I am not a sinner. Working evil? How when we are devoted to HARM NONE? I have a pure religion that is based on all the creations on this earth. If you believe that your God Created this Earth as it states in the Bible, then how can you possibly have a problem with that? I have read the bible, I used to be able to recite all those so important verses from the bible. (I probably still could if I tried hard enough, it just isn't something that seems prudent to me so..) Something just didn't seem natural about a God that loves his children but wants to control EVERYTHING THEY DO.

Don't get me wrong, I commend you on your faith. It is what you believe and that is great. There are too many people out there that don't believe in any path or religion.

I just really find it hypocritical to be so devoted to your religion, to your God and his ways that he lays down so vehemently for you in the bible, and then to go against him. Remember in the 10 Commandments, Thou shall not judge lest thy be judged. When you presume to know that a religion is good or bad you are judging, thus putting yourself in the seat of judgement. But then we aren't supposed to defend our religion. Because you will always have a comeback about how it is the work of Satan. I don't believe in Satan. I believe that the evil on this earth is man made and the only ones that can stop it is the human race.

I have the right to my own beliefs, just like the budhists, the jewish, the indians, the christians etc....

You don't see Christianity the way I see it. As I don't see paganism the way you do. However, we all have the right to believe what we choose. But in doing so, should you not still obey your God? To "FORGIVE" us for what you believe are sins is so gracious of you. But what would it take for you to "ACCEPT" that there are different beliefs regardless of how you feel about them?

I must admit that I didn't read all of the posts because on the first page alone I just couldn't fathom the idea of everyone telling each other what is right and what is wrong. I know that what I read was not in any way anyone trying to be mean, just stating your oppinion and trying to convince each other that theirs was right.

My thought is this, why would a God give us a whole brain to use and then limit our use of it. You realize that we only use a miniscule portion of our brain. this is because the rest is locked away from us. Either by social protocol telling us that the use of any powers that the other part of our brain is capable of is wrong or a sin. Well if it was given to us we should be able to use it. Free will was given to us but we are not allowed to use it? Give me a break. Our Gods would not give us something and tell us, "But don't use it or else".

The only time free will is acceptable by christian standards is when our free will encourages us to do everything the christian god says.

As for magic. Let me just say that yes, we "cast spells". Now what exactly is a spell? Better yet, what is a prayer? Hmm, they are one in the same. We just call them by different names.

Just like a christian will pray to God for a loved ones medical condition. Us Pagans will "pray" to our deities for the same. Just because we do it differently means, in a Christians eyes, that we are evil. Then that means we should be saying the same about Christians. You do it different than us so you must be bad. What kind of sense does that make?

As I see it, christians have it easy. They have the bible to tel them how to do everything. And I mean everything. If it isn't justifiable by the bible then you can't do it. However, pagans have to work allot harder because our abilities that we know are there have been locked away in that none working part of our brain, because society made it a sin to use it. We don't have a book telling us how to turn it back on. We have to find it for ourselves.

Just like a computer, if someone doesn't show you haw to use one the first time you have to figure it out on your own. It isn't all that simple. What would make it so much harder is to have half the world telling you not to touch that power button or you are sinning. Half the world downing you for trying tolearn something, or for believing in something is a very frustrating thing to deal with. So I guess you could say that we pagans are genuinely devoted to our religion, because I know allot of Christians that couldn't handle the pressure we are under trying to get us to change our ways. To change our faith.

You know, we don't just read a book and know paganism. We live it and we learn everyday. There is a saying, "if it feels good do it." Well churches and the christian God don't feel right to us. Nature feels right and good. That is what we are devoted to.

Christians use their free will to worship thier Christian God. Pagans use their free will to worship their Gods and Goddesses. If you really want to get technical, the higher up is one in the same, we just believe they are different. Or called different names.

No one will truly know until they are gone from this earth anyways. So there really is no point in debating until one of us figures out how to find out before we die.

Each to their own. It isn't going to change our minds anyway.

This is so cool. Thanks. I was reading all the religious postings in hopes of finding one for pagans but no such luck. Then I see this.

So I wanted to thank you for it.

Well, there you have it. It is possible so therefore I will make it my mission to figure out how.

Whoa! A mere moment. Wow! We could try. Could be fun. LOL

Is that what they're called? OOPS! LOL

My reasons are,

1. Husband was a cheating lying jerk.
2. Next guy was a control freak that thought I should lock the kids in their room except during school hours.
3 Last guy didn't even know what a phone was and would show up after anywhere from 1 week to a month between visits like nothing was wrong. Duh! Not stupid here.
4. #1 says I am psycho because I wanted more human interaction than just my kids and the grocery store clerk.
5. I muct admit I am a bit crazy BUT IT'S IN A GOOD WAY, I SWEAR!

In a nutshell.

Here's one for ya. My son is 20 years old now but when he was 6 he peed in a "wall" outlet. It blew all the electricity on one side only of the trailer we were living in. I didn't know what was going on and flipped the circuit breaker, which sent flames shooting across his bedroom. When I figured out what was going on he tried to tell me his sister did it.

Thanks for the welcome everyone. Haven't found too many sites that are as welcoming as this one. Think I am gonna like it here.

New here and wanted to say Hello to everyone.