So then is God dead?

If he is not dead, then he did not die for anybody, except in the flesh. If he was god, then he must have known he was immortal? Or did he? If he did, then he did not have much to loose. If he didn't then he was not all-knowing.

Jeannie

Yes, God died in the flesh. Was that death any less painful for God? No, it was more painful. God was murdered by those whom he loved. Jesus was seperated in spirit from God the Father, which finally caused Jesus to cry out in fear and pain.

Jesus wasn't all-knowing during his life. He taught that only God would know when Judgement day was, that he didn't know when it would be. That was true at that time. Now that Jesus is back in his rightful place, Jesus is once again Omniscient.

So if Jesus was not all knowing and he appeared to be just a normal human being, then what makes him any different than anyone else who teaches love and performs healings, or walks on water? (There are documented cases of people raising from the dead after three days, and there are magicians who appear to walk on water.)

One guy was dead and in a cooler for three days and came alive when they started to do an autopsy. He remembered a lot of things during his "dead" days which turned him from an atheist to a minister after he came back to life. He lives in Texas now I think.

So what makes Jesus any different than a person like that? What proof is there that he is what you say he is?

Just what is there that would convince any unbeliever that Jesus is different when there is really no solid evidence that the man even lived and died in that time? People are simply asked to believe on trust.. or faith.

I was asked to believe in Santa Clause too. That did not turn out well.

1) Jesus never sinned, according to God's laws. Many call themself "sinless", but their claim doesn't stand up against God's law.
2) Jesus had a spotless and perfect soul. Jesus had been with God forever. Jesus lived a human life without the direct spiritual connection that he had always enjoyed with God, but his soul was the same.
3) Jesus created the universe.

Wow spider!

Re-writing the Bible are we?

Come back when you aren't depending on gratuitous assertions.

Gotta love ya spider, but what do you call this?



You need me to support that this is not what is written in Genesis?

Surely you jest!

I see that I finally found your nemeses. This insurmountable truth you cannot contest.

You make me feel like I just won the Olympics or something and I wasn’t even competing.

Oh by the way, I just watched a movie called “Devil’s Advocate”, staring Keanu Reeves and Al Pacino. I think that movie shows who the real Satan is. Of course if you come away from the movie thinking that Al Pacino was Satan then it will have been a total waste of your time.

If you truly understand who Satan is then you’d know how silly it is to think that God would need to die to protect us from Satan. The only one who can protect you from Satan is yourself. No one else can do it for you. Ever hear of free will?

Vanity, vanity, all is vanity.

Vanity can even take the form of becoming a religious zealot. A person who becomes too proud to confess that even they must live on faith alone just like everyone else.

The King Spider Verson.

Coming soon to a bookstore near you!

(they really need a :rollseyes: icon here)

1 and 2:
You could say that about anybody. You do not know these things.
3:

If Jesus was not all knowing, as you said above, then he could not have created the universe. It takes a lot of knowledge to do that. We are talking about Jesus the MAN here.

And what do you know of any man's soul? Nada. All you "know" is what you have been told.

Anything that I post, I can support. If I don't do so due to time constraints, simply ask and I will provide supporting materials.





Jesus is the word.

The same can be said for you. You asked for my opinion, I offered it. You seem to be annoyed that my opinion is based on my beliefs.

My question was this:



Do you consider your opinion to be proof? I also asked this:





Do you think your opinion is enough proof to convince an unbeliever ~ someone who had never even heard of Jesus?

Of course you can, because you don’t care if you contradict yourself.

You’ve argued quite vehemently in the past that Jesus is not God, but just the Son of God. This was necessarily when we were talking about issues with Jesus not giving into the temptation of sin. If Jesus was God and God can’t even look upon sin how could he possibly commit a sin? Besides all sin really is, is the breaking of God’s own rules. Why would God want to break his own rules.

You argued before that Jesus was not the same as the farther.

Yet now you’re trying to argue the opposite.

Clearly you have no idea what you believe.

because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now--and never to be equaled again.



There is my 'proof' that it specifically says 'God' created the world...

Where does it clearly state otherwise?

Nowhere...

What did you call that again?

Gratuitous assumption...

There is no reason for you to lie about what I have posted. I have never denied that Jesus is God. If you thought that I said that, it's simply your total ignorance of what Christians believe or your habit of simply skimming other's posts looking for a single sentence for you to disagree with. Your pathetic strawman tactics might serve you with others, but I have no need to refute absolute lies.

Jesus is God.

God is an object of worship. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all equally God. The Father is called God by all, because the Father has never submitted himself to another's will. Jesus is called God by all of creation, because Jesus created the universe. Jesus calls the Father God, because he has submitted himself to the Father's will.

Jeanniebean,

Sorry, but I've addressed that many times...once within the past two days. I don't believe that there is any "proof" that I can show you of God's existance. Anything I point to will be reasoned away. Therefore, I don't believe that there is anything I can do to prove God's existance. If I can't prove God's existance, I can't prove that Jesus created the universe and I cannot prove that Jesus is our savior. That's a matter for faith.

All you are saying here is that there is no difference between Jesus and God. But that becomes extremely problematic when discussing the life of Jesus.

If Jesus was God then his sinless life was totally meaningless. Jesus would not have needed to play guessing games like mortal men need to do. He would know that he was God, and he would be absolutely confident that he has all the power to do whatever he wants and that he can never really die.

Hells bells, give any man that absolute knowledge and he could be like Jesus too. Not only would he know the truth of our existence and all of eternity, but he would also know that he had created it and that he’s the top dog and no one will ever judge him because he makes all the rules.

Moreover, if Jesus really was God and really did make up all his rules because that’s the way HE wanted things to be then it stands to reason that he wouldn’t have any problem adhering to precisely the way he wants things. It would be impossible to tempt him. That would be like trying to tempt someone who hates mustard by giving them a bowl of mustard and tempting them to eat it. Why would they be tempted to do something they already hate?

So the idea of the devil tempting God to break his own rules would be utterly absurd.

The whole thing breaks down again.

There’s no way to salvage it. I’ve tired to salvage it, as did Isaac Newton. We both gave up.

In hindsight I’m not sure why I even bothered to try. I think I was rooting for the ‘little guy’. You know, that totally innocent lovable man named Jesus. But the problem is that if that totally innocent lovable man really was the creator of this universe then he wasn’t so innocent at all. He was just playing games with us. How can your really feel sorry for an all-powerful, all-knowing, God who is playing games with human emotions by playing hide-and-seek and guessing games with them?

If Jesus was the creator of this universe didn’t need to play hide-and-seek with God because he was God. He wouldn’t have needed to play guessing games because he would know that he has all the power and that life is eternal and that no one is above him to judge him. He would be in an all-powerful position that he can’t lose no matter what. And we need to feel sorry for that????

I don’t think so. This would be a game-playing God who just likes to toy with the emotions of mortals who have nothing to go on but hearsay from people who claim that some absurdly ridiculous mythology represents the creator of this universe. A creator that would be a seriously mentally disturbed deity.

What’s with all the Game Playing? If God wants us to worship him why doesn’t he just ask IN-PERSON?

That would be easy enough. No need to play stupid guessing games. That’s totally immature and irresponsible.

And what ever happened to my question?

Why would this God create an eternal hell? What’s in it for HIM?

And if there’s nothing in it for HIM, then why bother????

It can’t be because he has no other choice because that would fly in the face of him being all-powerful.

It’s an impossible picture. It can’t be made to work. It necessarily must be a lie made up by men. It’s too full of holes.

I don’t believe that you have the ability to be honest with yourself.

You’re in love with insulting everyone by calling their arguments “strawman”, but in fact, you have no explanations for anything. Nothing you say ever holds any water. You just state what you believe, but you state it as though it is the gospel truth. Therein lies your folly.

All you really need to do is climb down off your holier-than-thou soapbox and confess that all of these things are nothing more than your own interpretations and opinions but you refuse to do that.



I used to be a Christian. So I guess you’re the one who is totally ignorant. All Christians do not believe like you. Several of my uncles were preachers and I’m certain that they would not agree with many of your views.

You act like you own the religion. The Spider that stole Christianity. I think you want people to bow down to you rather than to God.