There it is again, that idea that 'Satan' is the only tempter leading to wrong-doing.

(sorry Feral, not attacking you, just the idea)

Human survival is contingent on meeting certain needs. If the "instict" for survival were non-existant, perhaps we would never be tempted to do wrong. But claiming that Satan is the reason, is rediculous. There are a great many times when our inherant nature, is forceful enough to commit "sin", and that nature comes directly from that all powerful creator.

This is not all there is to consider either. How we develop, mentally, has to do with our surroundings and how we relate to all that we experience. This is why individuals are unique. This is also why "wrong" thought processes can not be attributed to an Evil Icon.

Then throw in all the mental illnesses, and together, they are not few. So every possible "temptation" to all of these people is attributed to one sourse? Confusing - and a little too easy.

The world would do better to consider that those who are 'capable' and 'able' are soly and totally responsible for their own actions - regardless of any godly beliefs.

Redy Wrote:
(sorry Feral, not attacking you, just the idea)

Human survival is contingent on meeting certain needs. If the "instict" for survival were non-existant, perhaps we would never be tempted to do wrong. But claiming that Satan is the reason, is rediculous. There are a great many times when our inherant nature, is forceful enough to commit "sin", and that nature comes directly from that all powerful creator.

Debbie Answers:
No sweets what your saying is ridiculous.....Meeting our needs and being tempted to do wrong and two different things. I need food and water to live that is instict and survival.....But wanting phone sex is a temtation that I choose not to do. Now you have other married men that do it all the time....is it survival? or just temtation and a sin? You can do whatever you want.....good bad or indifferent.....the difference between us is that I know when I sin as soon as I do it.

Redy said:

This is not all there is to consider either. How we develop, mentally, has to do with our surroundings and how we relate to all that we experience. This is why individuals are unique. This is also why "wrong" thought processes can not be attributed to an Evil Icon.

Debbie Answers: Well you my sweet Redy can call it whatever you wish......And put whatever label you wish....For myself I look at anything that is awful, nasty and wrong in the world of satan.....And the key to understand...is just like yourself I am here to believe whatever it is that I choose. I choose to believe that someone doesn't wake up in the morning to say....."Hey what a beautiful day, I think I will be a drug addict." (satan) I choose to believe that the men and woman who could so without regard for life molest and kill a child (satan) I believe that all that is not beautiful and good in this world is of satan.....Not that anyone would just get up and say I am evil and I am a child molester and I am a bank robber.....Now do I believe that environement and others sources play a key into this....yes I do.

Redy Said:

Then throw in all the mental illnesses, and together, they are not few. So every possible "temptation" to all of these people is attributed to one sourse? Confusing - and a little too easy.

The world would do better to consider that those who are 'capable' and 'able' are soly and totally responsible for their own actions - regardless of any godly beliefs.

Debbie Says:

Which is what source.....I have seen with my own eyes....mentally ill human beings give it to God...and it is done.....I have seen drug addicts that have been addicted for 20 + years whom I ask....."you have done it this way all this time, how is that working for you." Now let's do it my way....and they are cured of this addiction....simply by giving it to God......So say as you wish.....I see the proof everyday.....of God's Grace, of his redemption for human beings on a daily basis. It's a lonely lonely sad thing to me....to think that you feel you have to do it on your own.....

I gave my life over to God......All of it.....I live my life for him in every thing and anything I do with my life....and for this I am truly blessed....Whereas I would take the burden myself, I don't have to now I give it to God....who gladly takes and uses me in ways that are just amazing.....Go sometime Redy and look at the Matchmaking Game thread.....it's in it's 10th part in 26 days......Because of God some amazing amazing things are happening there.....e-mail the people anyone I don't care who...ask them yourself.....They are my witnesses, they are my testimony..And all the Glory is God's.....And because of the gifts of My Lord I am through it all.....more blessed then you could even imagine.

LOL!!!! what a good movie

Hey you.......how you be......long time no see......Have missed the cutiful Kalamazoo.....

It’s a real pity that some men decided to associate God with sin and evil.

That has to be the sickest idea any man has ever come up with.

Worshiping a creator should be totally free of any thoughts of ugliness in every possible way. The fact that some religions have been smeared sin and salvation and blood and guts all over the idea of our creator is really the saddest thing I can imagine.

A religion that proclaims that all men are inherently sinful and have fallen short of the glory of God is itself the greatest sin mankind has ever invented. To do so is to denounce the creation of God itself. It’s an extremely bitter and negative picture that could have only been created by sick demented minds. That fact that anyone would accept such a tainted distorted picture of our creator is indeed the greatest proclamation of man’s ignorance and failure to love one another without a need to point fingers of blame.

I could never belittle our creator by entertaining the idea that such a sick mythological picture could possible be correct. Just to entertain that thought is to belittle the beauty of God and smear dirt all over God. It’s a seriously filthy religion. I would love to rinse the world clean of such demented thoughts and let the unadulterated beauty of God shine through. As long as this filthy religion exists it will continue to taint the beauty of God and smear mud all over her beauty.

I have optimism that some day people will view God with pure love, and not associated God with feelings of guilt and shame of humanity. We should never be ashamed of what we are. We are beautiful, and God is beautiful. Why do we support and advocate such demented mythologies that are clearly deceptive mendacity of both humanity and our creator? Such negativity can only bread more negativity.

I have a dream that some day people will view God as a thing of beauty and purity and never even think of associating Her with demented and perverted thoughts and images. And they will also view themselves with pride and respect and quit thinking of themselves as pathethic helpless sinners.

I already do Abra..The problem is, too many ppl don't realize that the NT takes precedence over the OT.
The whole notion of accepting God out of fear is ridiculous.
Accept him out of Love and faith and you will have a TRUE understanding of God.
Using fear is nothing more than a dictatorial way of making sure we keep in line
God is NOT a dictator.

The problem is that the NT can’t stand on its own and has no meaning on its down because the NT claims that Jesus was the God of Abraham. (i.e. the God of the OT).

So you can’t just reject half the story. You need to believe that an unchanging God does change his mind, his mannerism, his personality, and his demands of us. But if God can change then God is unstable and we can’t be sure that he’ll keep promises or anything. He could change again at any moment. He has a multiple-personality disorder.

You see, in the old testament he taught people to stone sinners. To kill disobedient children before they become disobedient adults. To stone those who commit fornication to death. To kill those who make blasphemous statements. To take and eye-for-an-eye and a tooth-for-a-tooth.

Yet this same God them comes to earth in a mortal form, tells people to be nice to those who sin, and not to throw the first stone at a sinner, and not to take an eye-for-an-eye, but instead to turn the other cheek.

Then when these people stone him to death (or crucify him for blaspheme) how can he complain? They did precisely what he had commanded them to do in the OT. How did they know he was going to change his personality?

They had no way of knowing. They were just doing precisely what he had commanded them to do.

The whole story is a farce from the word go. It has to be, especially considering that it claims to be the story of a God who supposedly already knows how the future will turn out.

The only way that you can free Jesus from the OT is to quite literally take the NT on its own without any reference to the OT whatsoever. That would mean that the Ten Commandments, the parting of the water, Noah’s flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, the tower of Babel, Job’s fire-breathing Dragon and all the rest was just manmade fairytales. You’d have to quite literally toss out the whole OT as being totally irrelevant myth no differnet from Greek Mythology.

Then you’d have to look at Jesus as a whole different God in his own right. Many people, myself included, have tried to save Jesus in this way. In fact, many of us believe that this is indeed the truth. Jesus was indeed an incarnation of God (just as all men are), but he was very much in harmony with God and he preached what it takes to be in harmony with God.

Ultimately Jesus was a pantheist and understood that we are god. That you and I and he and the father are all one.

However, in order to do this you must realize that the gospel that was written about the life of Jesus was tainted by gross misunderstandings by the men who wrote about him. They exaggerated and misunderstood much of what he said. Their biggest mistake was in their belief that Jesus’ tragic death was planned as some kind of sacrifice for man’s salvation. Therein lies the biggest mistake of all. Jesus never intended to be crucified. That was a tragedy that he did not plan and served no purpose.

This I believe.

Your statement makes sense if Jesus wasn't sent here to teach by example. Jesus was supposed to have been god in the form of man, subject to all the temptations to which we are exposed. If this dude is here to teach you why something is wrong, which is more effective: Him being completely immune to it or him being susceptible to the temptation yet turning it down? The idea is that Jesus was supposed to have shown people that the things they want most, sex, drugs, and rock n' roll (figure of speech), are wrong. Wanting anything beyond what is absolutely necessary is detrimental to your spiritual health. It takes your mind off of what is most imperative.

Fear of death is a perfect example: In the Garden of Gethsemane, Jesus asked god why he had forsaken his son. Jesus obviously desired to live, even though he knew he was the son of god (if that's what you believe) and that he was heading toward some really sweet rewards. He refused satan in the desert because he knew that giving into mortal desires was "wrong", even though the idea of a bit of water and some bread sounded really good. But he had to show his disciples that it was wrong. If he had been able to refuse any of these things outright he would have been no example to man. How else was he to teach us the power of our own will?

Do you have children? If so, do you tell them something is wrong without explaining why it's wrong? Or do you lead by example?


See above. He had to show us how to overcome temptation.


That's what's called a redundancy. It doesn't invalidate the message he was trying to convey.


Sure, it does....if you don't confuse religion with belief. The way modern christianity is run it's hard to figure out what's right and what's wrong. "Can't see the forest for the trees" springs to mind.


Why? Because of what the bible says? Because of what you think the bible says? Because you think it's more socially acceptable to be an atheist?

Does it really matter if Jesus was really the son of god/part of the trinity? Did he not have a good message?

THANK YOU! :)

Has anyone here ever changed their mind? Either for arbitrary reasons or because they received new information that made them realize their previous belief was wrong?

If the answer is "Yes, I've changed my mind", then the whole "God can't change his mind" argument is invalid. If you've never, ever changed your mind then good for you. You can say "god" is wrong.