(((((Redy))))

Glad classes are still so fun for you. I loved classes but hated all the paperwork, standing in line, etc. needed to get my degrees. Uggg...

About the question....

I can't imagine a creator that would care whether we "worship" it or not much less whether we create huge symbols to represent that worship.

So the symbols must be for the people. I believe the reasons people want or need these symbols must be as varied as people themselves are... some may find them comforting reminders of their faith, others may see them as welcoming identifications for others with the same beliefs (e.g. "heres our church- come on in"). But I'm sure that their are other reasons too- e.g. of the my god is the best, better, the one and only type of reasons...

But I think that the biggest reason most people like these symbols is because they are lonely or timid- frightened of differences. If they see "their" symbols, whether secular or religious, they instantly feel that they "belong". I have seen this also when two people meeting casually realize that they are both part of some larger group- the same club, religion, alumni, etc. They feel more relaxed with the new person simply because they are both part of the larger common group.

I think it's not just religious symbols, but as someone else suggested, other groups as well. For me having lived in the American South for a large part of my life (North Carolina) I thought immediately of the Confederate Flag. I used to get in arguments with other southerners about this all the time. they wanted this flag displayed from public buildings, on their cars, houses, churches, etc. I argued that this flag symbolized inequality and was offensive to many while representing something that no longer even existed. But it was important to them because it made them feel part of something. I think it is sometimes the same with religious symbols- they are mostly just a reminder to those people that they are part of something- that they are not alone.

Most people seem so lonely- or afraid of being alone. These symbols make them less afraid.

Peace.

Redy
QUOTE<<<<<<
The 'request' I refer to, is that the symbols/icons,of religion, be removed from 'public' & 'government' domain.


What constitutes a symbol? Would this be on a global basis?



But what does this symbology mean to the god/s to whom it recognises? If ALL such icons or symbols are disallowed in public and government displays, why is one particular religion, above all others, so offended at the loss of the symbol?


How much freedom should be taken from someone? Their national heritage, customs, food, leaders?


Could it possibly be, simply, the loss of control, or sense of control, in what that the symbol represents?


For me on a personal level, not it is not that simple.


Those are the questions I was asking.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Good questions, but the answers are not so simple.

Whaaaaat?? Was that supposed to be "Di" answering? I do not understand that.

Kat

Sorry Kat, I shall try again.


This was Redy's quote:






To which I responded:

1. What constitutes a symbol? Would/should this be on a global basis?

2. As a result, how much freedom should be taken from someone? Their national heritage, customs, food, ..?

3. For me on a personal level, not it is not that simple.

4. Good questions, but the answers are not so simple.


Glad you are enjoying school.

Alrighty then....
Stupid blonde moment. Well, blonde streaks.
Kat

Hiya all...

Di, I am so sorry I had not peeked into this thread yet, I get an extremely acute sense of tunnel vision while seriously contemplating some things... :

My perspective concerning symbolic understanding is as follows:


Simply put, I wonder if all symbolic representation may just be a reminder which allows subconscious memory a connection with one's own current understanding of a particular term or notion.

do forgive me, I must learn not to create topics while school work is priority.

HI Kat, Anoasis, Britty, Voil, Creative, oh - who did I miss.

You are all so wonderful. OK - Britty asked:



A symbol, would be any display, or words, that can be directly related to a particular or specific religious affiliation. Mostly I'm referring to icons. Things like crosses, statues, manger displays. BUT, keep in mind that I refer to all such symbols and icons, without preference against any single religion. It's just that Christian use of sybology far exceeds an other public displays.



Keep in mind that I'm not referring to private property. If new Masque (did I spell that right?) is build in the center of a major Bible belt city and it's the largest construction in the city, I could care less, as long as it was constructed on privately owned propery.

Here's the thing about public domain, imagine if ALL religious icons and displays were allowed anywhere on public or government domain - how many would be offended by seeing a pentegram or other santanic displays only inches away from the manger scene? And how much disorder do you suppose such things would create?

Sometimes the price of having our form of govenment requires that we accept the idea that sometimes there must be give and take. To grant freedom and inalienable rights to everyone means that sometimes the majoity must give in for the sake of maintaining peace and order while allowing each 'equal' share of freedom. To allow public display to only one religion is in direct conflict with the basic tenants that this nation stands on.





But they are simple questions, there is really only one thing to consider.

The main purpose of any government is to keep order. We live in a country where diversity of cultures, heritage, and religion are not only present, but desired. That is the heritage of this country - the melting pot of the world.

So how does one keep order in such a diverse society? Sometimes the majority must make a small sacrifice for the sake of maintaining that order.

That's why I was trying to understand why so many Christians feel the NEED for such displays - ESPECIALLY when so many agree that the Bible itself frowns on such icons.

One other side note. For over 200 years, Christianity reigned practically unchallanged in this country. Why would anyone interfere with someting that seemed harmless? After all it wasn't causing any disturbance. So now, Christians want to know why they can't continue in this manner. I think they know EXACTLY why. The opposition that they face has grown to a point where unrest and order are being challenged. This could only have happened because Christianity is loosing it's supremecy. Christians, fear the loss of power and control that stemmed from that reign. I can see no other reason for the huge outcry of Christians in this matter. I was just wondering if anyone else could offer a more logical conclusion.

Hangs head and leaves thread. I knew it...dang it.lol

Wasn't even close. Red....it is just too difficult to post to you at times. It makes my brain hurt. And gives me gas.
Kat

Be thankful for the gas in this day and age of high fuel prices.

Hi my good friend.

Kat

Seriously, this has to be the silliest thing I can imagine. A God who needs to be worshiped and demands to be the center of attention or he gets all bent out of shape. It’s utterly absurd if you stop and think about it.

Why would an all-powerful creator of an entire universe be worried about being the King of Kings and have every tongue confess that he is their Lord, and every knee bow to him?

Clearly this kind of rhetoric comes form the overly inflated egos of people who made up a God and then demand that everyone else buy into it. No genuine supreme being could possibly be so egocentric.

Oh, Kat,
I'm sorry I didn't respond directly to your posts. I did read about your cross. Personal objects are often times attached to values of sentiment. Perhaps a particular icon, like a cross necklace stikes a sentimental chord. And sometimes, a personal object can bring a sudden and much needed souce of comfort.

My mother was give a Bible on her confirmation age 13. It had a family insert page - marriages, births and deaths. When I got married (the first time. lol) she gave it to me. I felt like the keeper of the family archive. That Bible is over 60 years old. I will give it to my son (some day). but for now, it give me comfort - imagine that. And yes, I have read it, many times.

Anyway, I have no quarrel with such things, I have absolutely no animosity toward any building constructed as a holy place. I do have issues with those who would place more value on a religious icon, as a public display, than they do on the values of freedom and liberty FOR ALL, for the sake of peaceful society.

I also can't understand how there can be so much conflict between the core values of a religion that includes The Golden Rule, and a passion for non-judgment verses a country who basic tenants declare the same thing. The only difference between the two, is that Government ENFORCES their beliefs, even against popular demand, while religion ENFORCES only an attitude supportive of secular elitism.

Redy,

Mosque - the correct spelling.

Your response basically answers my question and to the reason why from your perspective it appears to be simple.

I am looking at it from a wider perspective (not just this country) with a lot more history behind it - the symbols more inclusive.

There are more reasons than what may appear to be obvious - time will answer those questions.

Enough to say that the icons you specifically mention, I can see your point from your perspective.

Thank you for responding to the questions.

We always have big "nativity" vs. "menorrah" debates here in the winter...

And not on private property, which should be allowed any displays that are within zoning regulations, but on public areas.

It's too bad that what should be a celebration of personal beliefs often turns into a fight of some kind...

"nativity" vs. "menorrah" debates - that's too bad.

There was a "menorrah" lighting and service near
where I lived, first time I had heard about it and I was
looking forward to being there but something came up at the
last minute. Hopefully another time I shall be more fortunate.