Community > General Religion Chat

Topic: Free will ?????
creativesoul Joined Mon 04/16/07 Posts: 9166	Thu 01/10/08 05:57 PM
Briefly whiteboy... not much... Is it worth reading? In your opinion... isn't that Nietzche?

feralcatlady Joined Mon 10/08/07 Posts: 35491	Thu 01/10/08 05:58 PM
I can't understand sometimes why people have to think so darn hard....It's not that complicated. I choose to come everyday to the religion threads and speak to people about God, the Bible, etc. (choice) My freewill allows me to stay nice, calm and relaxed. (right & wrong) I choose to blowup and yell and scream(choice) Mr freewill makes me go back and apologize for my nasty behavior. right & wrong)

creativesoul Joined Mon 04/16/07 Posts: 9166	Thu 01/10/08 06:00 PM
feral... Indeed, most people have grounded enough morals to have a conscience which regulates 'free will'... not all though... that's for sure...

Chazster Joined Tue 08/28/07 Posts: 6206	Thu 01/10/08 06:00 PM
I can't understand sometimes why people have to think so darn hard....It's not that complicated. I choose to come everyday to the religion threads and speak to people about God, the Bible, etc. (choice) My freewill allows me to stay nice, calm and relaxed. (right & wrong) I choose to blowup and yell and scream(choice) Mr freewill makes me go back and apologize for my nasty behavior. right & wrong) actually your free will doesn't make you do that or it wouldn't be free will. It does however allow you to make the choice whether or not to do those things.

feralcatlady Joined Mon 10/08/07 Posts: 35491	Thu 01/10/08 06:09 PM
feral... Indeed, most people have grounded enough morals to have a conscience which regulates 'free will'... not all though... that's for sure... And what about you creative.......do you know the difference between choice, and free will.....or do you just like to stir the pot.

cuzimwhiteboy Joined Mon 10/15/07 Posts: 229	Thu 01/10/08 06:09 PM
Briefly whiteboy... not much... Is it worth reading? In your opinion... isn't that Nietzche? I recall Nietzsche advocating "biological determinism" or "naturalistic fatalism." I could be mistaken. I think "compatibilism" is the most practical notion of free will though. It should answer your questions a little better. Check it out.

creativesoul Joined Mon 04/16/07 Posts: 9166	Thu 01/10/08 06:14 PM Edited by creativesoul on Thu 01/10/08 06:16 PM
Dragoness: creative I did not feel "soft" as I wrote it..lol...I am however gently disagreeing with the ideal you have, this is because I do believe in personal responsibility in our lives for most of the things that happen to us. I guess this is the same end result as your ideal here but not removing free will but because of it. I attempt to distinguish between 'free will' and choice... *that* is the entire issue at hand... the difference. We understand one another just fine... I have to give you the cause and effect on most of our choices, they are based on past beliefs, events, interactions, etc...... but there are those choices made for absolutely no reason. Example: If I was a product of my upbringing one hundred percent, I would be a bitter, sour, negative, guilt ridden, lonely woman sitting around eating myself into oblivion because of the great "tests" god had put on my shoulders during life spouting off comments about everything happens for a reason but still feeling sorry for the reason. I have plenty of female relatives who show this. I was different for some reason. I believe this to be because of my free will. I chose to take a path undone before without knowing if it would be different in the end or not. I do understand cause and effect and that the theory is there is always a cause and effect. But free will is still available to someone who wanted to make a choice with no leaning on the past or taught. My logic could wrap around that concept if I did not know me....lol. I am struggling with this because most of the time I agree with your ideals completely. They strike me at a logical level and so now I think I am missing something or it is going over my head or something, I hate that...LOL One's 'upbringing' is not being held at 'fault' here. It is merely a part of the internalization(s)... all of which reduce the choices available accordingly. If one has only experienced hate... it would impossible to act out of love. It takes some kind of exposure... I am always quite pleased to see another who has felt things could be... should be... different somehow... then displayed the courage to walk another path... Keep the hope alive by being hopeful...

creativesoul Joined Mon 04/16/07 Posts: 9166	Thu 01/10/08 06:15 PM Edited by creativesoul on Thu 01/10/08 06:29 PM
Whiteboy: I think you are right... I will check it out... Thanks... EDIT: Hey whiteboy... a quick look-see kinda perked an interest within me... sounds familiar... Thanks again... I will look more into this soon...

savage_henry Joined Thu 01/10/08 Posts: 61	Thu 01/10/08 10:57 PM
I'm glad this discussion ended with actual ideas being exchanged than people just being pretentious and trying to act smarter than the rest, as it was at the beginning.

creativesoul Joined Mon 04/16/07 Posts: 9166	Fri 01/11/08 05:51 AM
savage: Yes... as am I. I was beginning to think that it would require a systematic dis-assembly of another's words in order to highlight the claims entirely based on personal internalization which affected the ability to see beyond. I was trying to be nice...

feralcatlady Joined Mon 10/08/07 Posts: 35491	Fri 01/11/08 07:09 AM
Why do people have to over analyze things. My freewill allows me to Let Christ into my heart.....and He leads me in everything that I do.....Pretty simple. Others are stubborn and feel they have to keep in under lock and key I feel because they think they need to be in control.

creativesoul Joined Mon 04/16/07 Posts: 9166	Fri 01/11/08 07:13 AM
feral: I respect your reasons for your belief(s)... I am personally very grateful that people analyze things... I am not sure what I would do without technology...

feralcatlady Joined Mon 10/08/07 Posts: 35491	Fri 01/11/08 07:19 AM
I know CS you need to dig for the truths...I totally respect that also.....I also saw your other thread about no scriptures and just doing what you like to do best.....So I stayed the heck out. Have a good one CS. Debbie

creativesoul Joined Mon 04/16/07 Posts: 9166	Fri 01/11/08 07:30 AM
feral: I just want you to know, that it was not aimed at anyone... promise!!! It just misguides the topic as a result of personal doctrine... With deep conviction of doctrine, it is hard to be open to another view... which is fine, however, not good for philosophical debate... that's all...

feralcatlady Joined Mon 10/08/07 Posts: 35491	Fri 01/11/08 07:35 AM Edited by feralcatlady on Fri 01/11/08 07:36 AM
Well we will see......and If I feel like I can be an impartial participant......without spewing scripture I will do so.....And honestly CS no offense taken in the least. P.S. You never did answer my question about what kind of Panthiest you are? It is my understanding that there is more then one.

creativesoul Joined Mon 04/16/07 Posts: 9166	Fri 01/11/08 07:41 AM
feral: My apologies... I did not realize that you had asked a question... Ummm... I am not a panthiest... I am an eclectic group of one...

voileazur Joined Sun 03/11/07 Posts: 2140	Fri 01/11/08 07:50 AM Edited by voileazur on Fri 01/11/08 07:56 AM
'feral' wrote: And what about you creative.......do you know the difference between choice, and free will.....or do you just like to stir the pot. Do you 'feral', know the difference?!?!? Everything you have stated so far are choices, not 'free will'!!! You chose 'christ'. That was a choice, made after consideration of your own circumstances. You didn't 'free will' Jesus into existence! Jesus was already there for you to choose. From that significant choice you made, you keep running up against circumstances in your life where you simply 'choose' to re-affirm your choice in 'Jesus', ... or not!!! Again, CHOICE!!! None of those decisions are free from their connection to a form of 'pre-existence'. You keep bumping up against this pre-existence, your circunmtances, and keep choosing, or not choosing a 'jesus' proper or not reaction mode!!! Choice YES!!! Free-will, as in a personnal 'will' that would be 'free' (not attached or dependent) from any pre-existent form, from which to choose?!?!? No such thing!!! To mascarade 'free-will' as one's abiblity to choose from 'always' pre-existent options, is nothing other than a sophistic fallacy.

creativesoul Joined Mon 04/16/07 Posts: 9166	Fri 01/11/08 09:16 AM
Voile said it much more directly than I... Free-will, as in a personnal 'will' that would be 'free' (not attached or dependent) from any pre-existent form, from which to choose?!?!? No such thing!!! Understanding of the difference between 'free will' and choice, applys to how 'knowledge' is formed and the differences between knowledge and wisdom, also... One must understand that the concept of 'free will' requires 'experience'... In some way, one must have been exposed to a notion and/or the individual elements of that notion in order to be able to consider(choose) that notion, beginning with some type of sensory experience... One's will to make a choice is dependant on what one has internalized. Surprisingly enough, earlier opposing opinions completely left out the subconscious aspect... as if all of the reasons that one makes one's choices are completely conscious...