i used to but with everything wrong in my life and in the world how can anyone believe. i used to go to church and pray but there is no point. i was just waking up extra early to go listen to a bunch of holier than thou hypocrites and give money to support my preachers love of extensive cars. and i was wearing out my knees to kneel down and talk to myself. nothing has ever changed. except my belief i am not sure if i do now

Everyone has their own god(dess)...maybe you just havnt found yours yet.

Dont believe in anyone but yourself. you are real and so are your problems. a make believe story in some old ****ing book isnt going to help you, you know, might as well read doctor suess.

Never be part of anything that keeps you on your knees.

Dont worry about not believing, or finding something different. if you stop worrying about life after death, than your life now will become more beautiful than ever, yes we all only have a limited time, and no, no one will be able to answer your questions. I promise no church out there knows, Why?

Let it go and you will be free.

dont think i will

I think this thread is a good example of how churches are backfiring. They tell people lies and then when the people wise up and realize they are lies they get peeved about it and disillusioned. Then they get bitter toward all forms of authority and the loose respect for everyone and everything.

Churches did these to these people by telling them lies.

Where’s Feral? What’s her explanation for why the churches have failed? Or is she just going to blame the church’s failure on the victims???

If we lived in a society that had a more realistic religion this wouldn’t be happening. Instead of preaching lies to people about a fictitious Santa Claus God that got himself nailed to a pole to save our souls they could be preaching the TRUTH!

The truth is that we are all children of the universe, and the universe is our collective mother/father, and that we are naturally part of something much larger and that we are all collectively one big family including the plants and animals that Christianity denounces as not even being relevant!

Christianity has created these little late-blooming overly-pubertied babies with chips on their shoulders.

It’s all the fault of Christianity with it’s perpetual unsubstantiated lies. They are lying to people and making them lose faith in HUMANITY!

The religion is causing more damage than it’s worth! Rabbi Rabbit is doing humanity a great service by questioning and attacking they lies of this bogus religion.

Look what it's doing to our childern!!!

What do you say to these victims of your religion Feral? Do you just ignore the problem and tell them that Jesus loves them anyway?

Abra -- I love reading your posts in this forum -- your analyses of these subjects are always refreshing, as is your staunch refusal to attack or denigrate anyone, even those who are abusive and rude.

Having said that, I must mention that, from where I sit, "realistic religion" is probably the best example of an oxymoron I have ever seen!

I don’t know Lex. I guess it all depends on what the idea of “religion” means to you. If you can only think in terms of religion as having something to do with an independent separate egotistical deity as defined by religions such as Christianity or Greek Mythology, then I suppose I’d have to agree with you.

I give the concept of “religion” a little wider birth of abstraction.

Religion could simply refer to our “true essence”.

So what is our “true essence” you may ask?

Well, we can imagine ourselves to be independent individual egos and whine because we are stuck living in places like Idaho. Or we can realize that we are not what we originally thought. We can realize that we are indeed this universe.

Where did you come from? Obviously you came from your mother’s womb, and she from hers and so on. If you believe in evolution then you also know that we all came from the womb of the universe. We are children of the universe. If you don’t believe in evolution then you must believe in some mythology that claims otherwise.

So, if you believe in evolution and you know that you came out of the universe then you also know that you are always part of it. The few cells that gave you initial life were fed in order to grow. What where they fed? More of the universe. You’re entire physical body is made of the same stuff that stars are made of. In fact, all the elements that make up your body came from the core of the stars.

What does this have to do with “religion”? Well, if the universe is what we are, then we are all one. And our ultimate true essence is that we are the universe. We share the ‘spirit’ of the universe. You can take the word ‘spirit’ to mean whatever you like. In some sense you can interchange the words ‘spirit’ with the word ‘essence’. You are this universe, as is everyone else. We are all part of something much larger than ourselves. To whine because we live in Idaho and aren’t getting what we want is a bit pathetic in this scheme of things. Only someone who thought that God was an egotistical Santa Claus would do that.

The idea that God has to be a separate deity from us is purely a “Judeo-Christian ideal” (which includes Islam).

So I would disagree with you when you say that “realistic religion” is an oxymoron. I think this entirely depends on your own personal restrictions on what you consider to be a valid “religion”.

Having reverence and respect for the universe, and the planet that gave rise to your being is hardly being unrealistic. Recognizing your place in this vast cosmic ocean, is hardly being unrealistic. On the contrary, to ignore these obvious things is unrealistic as far as I’m concerned.

So it could just come down to semantics. If you insist that “religion” only refers to the existence of specific external separate deities then I suppose we need to find another word for it (perhaps “spirituality”)?

Whatever word you use, surely you can see that there is a concept here worthy of our collective recognition. The universe clearly has a consciousness, even if only though us! But if it is through us, then it is collectively through us, and this is what our little whiney egos need to see.

People want to believe in a God who is a magic genie. They want to pray to Him and get what they want. If they don't get it, then God is not worth pursuing.

I believe that many of us have it backwards. We need to come to see ourselves for what we are, to see God for what He is, and then reject our own selfish ways of life and seek to live God's way whether it feels good or not.

Further, few understand what God is doing. They think He is just saving people. He is not. He has a plan in which it is important for each of us to experience what everyone else does. Therefore, speaking of the devil, we are told:

1Pe 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

So, believers don't just get a golden brick road to the kingdom. They don't have a free pass to the problems and difficulties in life. Those things that happen to us teach us lessons and build compassion in us. They are for our good.

There is an enormous purpose for us, and an awesome destiny. Life is the way it is, not because God is not real or not good. Life is screwy because mankind left God and determined that we would decide right and wrong. We left God and the devil now controls this world.

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Blame the devil. Blame ourselves, but don't blame God for what we, corrupt church leaders, or others do in life. Learn to not follow their example. But, I believe we should stick with the morals and values of the Bible. Anything else eventually leads to kickbacks, suffering, and more pain.

Art