Topic: the doctrine of hedonism
lizardking19's photo
Wed 12/19/07 01:10 PM
I believe that happiness should be the goal of a persons' life, not wealth as wealth is an abstract concept. If the materiel goods which one can procure through money make one happy then by all means strive for them. BUT the things on which we spend the most money: Education, Transportion and Housing are things meant to lead to having more money. They do nothing but keep a person satisfied with the status quo.
There should be no middle men on the way to happiness. It is too easy to get focused on those rather than enjoying ones rewards.
an example of this is as follows: each day a person may drive to their job in their car. Then they drive home after working for a day to their house which they will be paying for for many years to come, they use the money they make from work (a job gotten because of a good college education theyre still paying off) so that they may pay off their bills. perhaps one day they buy a new car with their money which they use to drive to work, the money from which they pay for the car. Every so often they "indulge" in something which they enjoy but is impossible to do too often. That day of golfing with their friends or dancing at a club (or whatever Im just using those as an example) is unbalanced by WEEKS or sometimes months of pointless labor
This is a wrong way of life, which many people seem to live autonomously without even questioning it. We have built a society upon this POINTLESS lifestyle and IT IS WRONG
If people strive to do what they enjoy rather than what they think they should enjoy, their life will be better
Happiness should always outweigh pain
There are blocks of streets lined with car dealerships and fastfood restauraunts as far the eye can see. What do they do?
I believe that happiness should be the number one goal of a life
Try it sometime
You'll be surprised

CraniumDesigns's photo
Wed 12/19/07 01:20 PM
Edited by CraniumDesigns on Wed 12/19/07 01:20 PM
yes, happiness and contentment should be the ultimate state to be in. studies show that happiness only goes up with earnings until a person makes about $50k/year and then levels off after that.

too bad human nature and human pride get in the way of our own contentment as well as others.

Abracadabra's photo
Wed 12/19/07 01:32 PM
I agree Lizard King, this could be a good philosophy for some. But maybe not for all.

My dream has always been to live on a completely self-sufficient organic farm. Specifically farming with horses. Growing fruit orchards, vegetable crops and lots of flowers. Just maintaining the farm would be my ultimate pleasure.

This kind of pleasure can certainly work because it is productive pleasure. One thing for certain is that I would always have enough to eat. bigsmile

However, some people’s idea of pleasure may be totally unproductive and potentially physically harmful to their health or the health of others.

For this reason, while I could certainly accept your doctrine as a way of life for myself, I’m not sure I could recommend it for everyone. :wink:

It’s definitely a ‘personality-dependent’ doctrine don’t you think?

lizardking19's photo
Wed 12/19/07 01:42 PM
I agree 2 an extent
there r 2 kinds of "Self destructive people" Those who do not live by societys rules (not psychokillers theyre in the other camp) and feel constantly berated because they wont "get their act together" im like that and hedonism is what most people like that already follow
The other type of self destruction is that which hurts others and themselves like drug addicts, these people r not actually following their paths 2 happyness rather they r acting out because of past traumas and or freudian complexes
so yes the very ability to be happy (not content, contentness is what people strive for and i think thats bad) is malleable and based on individual personalities

no photo
Wed 12/19/07 09:45 PM

I believe that happiness should be the number one goal of a life
Try it sometime
You'll be surprised

So Lizard, a few questions!!!

Have you researched for any standing 'patents', 'trade-marks', or other legal commercial road blocks to your new doctrine.

You are sharing space with ethical and philosophical principles of colossal proportions, and older than Christianity itself, if we suscribe to the generally accepted view that Hedonism is an offspring of the ancient Greek 'Epicurean' doctrine (310 before Christ).

Closer to us, you have to split the stage with Christians, that's right, CHRISTIAN HEDONISM, a term coined in 1986 for a theological movement originally conceived by a Christian pastor.

The tenets of this philosophy are that humans were created by God with the priority purpose of lavishly enjoying God through knowing, worshiping, and serving Him. This philosophy recommends pursuing one's own happiness in God as the ultimate in human pleasure.

Similar to the Epicurean view, the highest pleasure is regarded as something long-term and found not in indulgence but in a life devoted to God.

A typical 'apologia' (hope you won't have the fundies all over you) for Christian Hedonism follows: "... Assuming one accepts that the primary definition of love is 'an emotion of affection', then if one were to love something truly he must also truly enjoy it!!!

So, there you have it. You're competing with the BIG ONE here!

What do chose to do about that, just operate a 'franchise' and pay royalites, or re-invent the whole anew?!!?

If you should pick the latter, I'd love for you to consider my candidacy as a 'bishop' of you doctrine or churh or whatever.

... always wondered what 'poontificating' would be like, wearing a big, tall, hard hat (mithe I think it's called?!?!?)

Anyhow, let me know how it all shakes down!!!



lizardking19's photo
Thu 12/20/07 06:18 AM
I'm aware of the greek philospophies, but theyre in the public domain since theyre over a hundred years old
I dont have any bishops anyway
theres no hierarchy
youll notice i mixed in anarchy into it
And my plan (and my pursuit of happiness) is the destruction of facist capitalist life wasting thru use of my poetry in an odd little catch 22 without that i would be more miserable because i wouldnt have anyone to rant against!!!

I think christian hedonism is full of crap, how can praying 2 god and being pious make one happy? If it actually does then by all means im not telling anybody to stop, but religion much like materielism is something people r told will make them happy when all too often it doesnt really

hey but to quote a tenet of chaos magick "everyones a pope"
So heres some song lyrics by the bloodhound gang
I didnt write this, a fellow named jimmy pop did

"Hell Yeah"

Alright now boys and girls we've got another story for you now!
We want to introduce to you another friend of the Bible!

Hell yeah
Hell yeah
Hell yeah
Hell yeah

If I were God there would be no explicit sex on T.V.
Like little Opie eating pie when he made it with Aunt Bea

If I were God thou shall not worship false Billy Idols
And thou shall add the Book Of Flavor Flav to the Bible
Thou shall make fun of Hindus thou shall not make a "Speed 2"
If I were God that's what I'd do Heavens no

Hell yeah
Hell yeah
Hell yeah
Hell yeah

If I were God I'd get a bunch of slaves to do everything
Norwegian lesbians that feed me grapes and know how to sing

If I were God thou shall not wear tube socks with Flip-Flops
Thou shall sit and thou shall spin thou shall even wife swap
Thou shall resist the Olsen Twins, thou shall not cut "Footloose"
If I were God that's what I'd do, Heavens no

Hell yeah
Hell yeah
Hell yeah
Hell yeah

And when they nail my pimpled ass to the cross
I'll tell them I found Jesus that should throw them off
He goes by the name Jesus (heyseuss) and steals hubcaps from cars
Oh Jesus can I borrow your crowbar?
To pry these God damn nails out they're beginning to hurt
Crucified and all I got was this lousy T-shirt
"I Can't Believe It's Not Butter!" I'll sing as I'm flogged
Yeah that's what I would do if I were God
So vote for me for Savior and you'll go to Heaven
Your lame duck Lord is like Kevin Spacey in "Seven"
With creepy threats of H-E-Double-Hockey-Stick
You just can't teach an old God new tricks
But would I be a good Messiah with my low self-esteem?
If I don't believe in myself would that be blasphemy?
Just sport some crummy "holier than thou" facade
Yeah that's what I would do if I were God

Redykeulous's photo
Thu 12/20/07 11:33 PM
Hey Lizard,
Thought I'd make the rounds, you know, visit all the new doctrines.

I have to say, I sort of agree with your doctrine on one level. It does seem that we spend much too much of our lives, doing thinks that are 'expected'. I have family, we call them our 'farm family', while they refer to us as the 'city cousins'.
I have always valued their way of life. It is by far the fuller life style. They work, long hours and are rarely 'off duty' completely, because there is always a neighbor in need or a family function to attend or host, and the most incredible part of the life style is that, as a community, they find ways to 'enjoy' much of their WORK by sharing together.

BUT, the small farm communities are almost extinct, they can not continue to pay the for the lease or the ownership of the land they work, unless they 'update' and produce more. But the cost of producing 'more' leaves them less able to afford the necessities of life.

Thus, even the farmers are no longer able to maintain the kind of lifestyle in which they 'enjoy' the lot in life that they chose, for many of the same reasons that your doctrine seems to uphold.

To rid yourself of the capitolist society, would require that you withdraw from it completely. There are few who even have the knowledge to be able to do so. There are far fewere that can even comprehend the devastating changes of a life of denial of the capitolist society.

We, the majority, would rather spend too much time in the chase for the few 'choice' desires, than to give up our creature comforts, for a virtually unpridictable and unstable life. Even if that life were to provide a more close knit society.

Sort of a shame really, but without capitolism, we would there could be no shared world wide knowledge or advancement on any front.

lizardking19's photo
Fri 12/21/07 07:09 AM
The farming life is just one thing that someone might find fulfilling, i dont have anything against trade but i think the idea of economy is a myth, Once people realize that the stock market and money and accounting mean nothing, they r free 2 do what they want

Redykeulous's photo
Fri 12/21/07 10:58 AM
Lizard, it seems your theory may be best alligned with the doctrine of ingnorance. (please visit it)

The reason I say this, is that you seem to want to ignore capitalism, and have others do say, while still being able to par-take of all it offers, as long as it suits your desires.

This seems to coincide with an allowance of ignorance of the world as it IS - to make the world that you want.

Please address this, I'm curious.

lizardking19's photo
Fri 12/21/07 04:37 PM
Yeah i like that doctrine of ignorance
I think if enough people ignore/dropout of the rat race then it will be forced 2 change, one of the things about capitalism is u have 2 participate in it to keep it alive
I think our society has done many good things but i believe that we have created a common cycle where people waste their lives and dont even realize it because theyre r 2 busy using tools/ideals which LEAD 2 the good parts of capitalism but never enjoying the fruits of their rewards

Timothy leary put it best "tune in,turn on,drop out"