Byron and doodoo or dewdrew.....hmmmmm....leave it to the male to tell
the female what she needs to do in the case of unplanned pregnancy. Yes,
a woman may choose intercourse with a man. No, she may not use a
contraceptive. She has made a thoughtless choice. However, is she the
only one engaging in this sexual encounter? No, without the sperm there
is no fertilization of the egg, so seems to me both sexes should have to
step up to the plate before and after. The problem is a man can try to
walk away, deny responsiblity, call the woman a whore and slander her
name. A woman,(the sex carrying the uterus), carries the baby and is the
obvious target. She doesn't get to pretend it isn't real or deny
responsibility. She goes through nine months of illness, hormone
changes, body changes, physician appointments and costs, and often the
prospect of being a single mother. Or maybe she is told that carrying
this child will, in all probability, bring about the deaths of both
mother and child. Wether a woman terminates or carries the child to
term, she and she alone, is often the only responsible part....because
she has the uterus. If she terminates, it is a decision that will follow
her through life. There will always be questions that any person not
having been in her shoes wouldn't understand. If she keeps the baby, she
will struggle alone, quite often, to house, cloth feed, provide
healthcare, etc. to the child. The father has the ability to pop in and
out at whim or never show up at all. Christian Childrens Services?????
Where the hell are they again, dewdrew?? How many children have you two
imbeciles raised alone....on a WOMAN'S salary?? We not only carry and
nurture the child invitro and beyond, but we also do it at a
considerably lower wage. Walk a mile in someone elses shoes and you may
find you've gotten your foot lodged in your mouth.

I'm new here, so I hope you don't mind me butting in. There's a huge
chasm between abortion for the sake of the mother's life and abortion as
birth control. Millions - millions! - of babies have been burned to
death with saline or had their little limbs ripped off as they were
vacuumed out of the womb. The worst yet, which has no place in any
civilization is partial-birth abortion. The baby's legs are pulled out
first, then the body and arms, leaving the head still in the birth
canal. The abortionist then uses a scissors-like tool to puncture the
base of the skull and then extracts the brain, so the "fetus" isn't born
alive. Look it up on the net.....

ok..so after reading this WHOLE thread, knowing this is a HUGE debate,
and has been for years now, knowing that once i put my opinion out
there, i'll be judged too..i have to type/speak my thoughts on this..

i have 3 kids myself, 2 seperate fathers. my first 2 have the same
father, my youngest's father was my hubs. i was raised, if you have
sex, and get pregnant, it's YOUR responsibility.

having said this, when i was 16, i watched as my friends Melissa and
Robert got engaged and then pregnant 3 months after their engagement,
when she was 16 and he was 17. major medical problems, after 10 weeks,
after being in the hospital for 4 of 'em, and constant bleeding, the
dr's told her she was "allergic" to her baby, along with her other
allergies. (she was also allergic to the sun, always wore jeans and long
sleeves with a hat).

she was 5ft 5inches tall, and weighed only 90 lbs due to this pregnancy,
and was continuing to lose weight. her parents were faced with the
decision, knowing that they could watch their daughter wither away,
deliver on life support, then die, and have the baby die shortly after,
or they could terminate the pregnancy, and have their daughter live.

Robert, and her parents were begging her to abort, she didn't want to,
she wanted to give her baby every chance she could. her parents had the
final say, and she did abort. Robert paid for the whole hospital stay,
even after their broken engagement. 4 months after the abortion, Melissa
locked herself in her room, and cut her wrists, her parents were able to
get to her in time. Melissa still sees a counselor but is living today,
and is married, and has 2 adopted children.

on the other side of the scale, when i was 23 another friend/co-worker
of mine, Sharleen, dated an older man (she was 17, and he was 26). he
already had kids. after 8 months, they got pregnant. her father had
MAJOR issues dealing with this, due to this man being black. in her
father's mind, dating is one thing, mixed racial babies are another.
Sharleene wanted to abort and Larry didn't have any issues with it.
Sharleen went on to have now, 3 more babies. Larry went on to marry
another gf he had, and still calls Sharleen, once in a while.



now, my opinion of these 2 circumstances. i fully agreee with Melissa's
parents. Melissa has always had a huge heart. i think she's doing what
she can, for herself, and others. i also think her guilt haunts her
alot.

i fully disagree with Sharleen and Larry's decision to abort. Larry
should have had the maturity to say no, and Sharleen should have pulled
her head outta her ass. i haven't talked to Sharleen in over 7 yrs now,
i have heard thru her father, that she has 3 kids, all by different men,
she still parties ALOT, and is hardly ever seen with her kids, cuz they
always seem to be at a sitters.

all in all, i think it should be pro-choice, Melissa might not be here
had she continued the pregnancy, her 3 adopted kids might still be in a
home, like Sharleen's.

those are great examples LG, and I really think it makes the point. My
father's 1st wife died along with the baby because she wouldn't have an
abortion.
So, please tell me all you that believe abortion is unacceptable under
ANY circumstance, What purpose did her not having a DOCTOR RECOMMENEDED
abortion serve??? The baby died and she dies making a husband a widower
and a 10 year old girl motherless!! I'm sorry, but her responsibility
was to her ALREADY BORN child.

Absolutely, Animal.

MikeM68

Fantasy is fantasy. Get real or are you not above that yet. OK so the
unborn is life. So every time you cut a nail or cut yourself, then you
are committing murder.
Oh!! God!!!! What are we coming too!

Every Sperm is sacred, every sperm is good. If a sperm is wasted, God
gets quit irate.

Mike, you say "sex isn't worth killing for", but I ask you how many
women have been killed across the WORLD during the commission of rape?
Where the hell was their RIGHT TO LIFE? Where was their right to "just
say no"? What if the rape would have resulted in impregnation, but
didn't come to fruition as result of the rape/ murder?

Hello men deserve the truth too.

Take a break, Nicole.

A good freind of mine went 18 months after his girlfriend had her baby
believing it to be his. He paid for everything, including her rent to
make sure his child would be well taken care of. At 18 months old, he
forged moms signature and has a DNA test done.(Again, at his own
expence) Then and only then did he find the baby was not his. Out of 512
DNA strands, only 12 matched. Did he not deserve the truth.

This new research does make a difference to me. I had no idea that
during a short term abortion the fetus (baby) felt so much pain.

I am pro-choice but now would want a requirement that the fetus be
drugged to aleviate any pain that it might feel. That is a horrible
death before it has a chance at life. I don't believe a woman should
have to make that choice too. It should be required that the pain be
nullified. The agonizing over an abortion is hard enough.

I have never had an abortion but do know those that have and know that
some are necessary and some should be stopped. However, the laws are
quite clear that if one woman, whatever the cirumstances, gets the
choice, all women should have the same choice.

I agree about degrees of choice too, but since an abortion would never
BE my choice, I have no answers. I am well past my child conceiving
years but feel this issue (the right to have an abortion) could always
be reversed and vigilance would be wise for all women.

Any woman who lies about who the Father is, is just as bad as the man
who walks away.

Responsibility is the first issue, THEN the pro-choice should come into
play. With DNA, I would think evey man and woman would want to know for
sure who the Father is... simple.

Verb

you are so right sxyoneishere.

For those who are so "adamantly" against abortion, but contend it's
"okay" in the case of rape or incest, tell me, why is this?Why is it
okay to "murder" an fetus so long as it's the product of a rape or of
incest?

(FTR, I am pro choice.)

One morning I was walking to go get a cup of coffe and across the street
a women in her early twenties(she didn't look too bad). She was crying
saying the hospital kick her out when she woke up. She mentioned
something she didn't know where she was and I notice she just had
hospital pajammas on(no shoes either).
She was crying thinking she was raped. Immediately my heart just
dropped out of my chest and I stood up for her. Offered her a cup
coffee. She seemed really annoyed. Told me she didn't know how she was
gonna get back to where she thinks she started out at a party in some
motel. Its not my occupation to counsel young women in situations and i
don't where this leading to. But I've been raped too once or twice in my
life so I felt bad because I felt that the rapist thought they were the
Judge, jury, and the executioner. especially if they have hiv. This is
sad because they are nothing but perverted individuals with no remorse
for the outcome of any individuals but being turned on by helpless
victims. Needless to say why be the same way. I will shut up about
abortion because its unconstitutional and incorrect to voice for women
when I am not. Forcing the issue is the same as a rapist and bargaining
control for privacy in ones life is a breach of control by the
government to get in bed with you or whatever reality takes place behind
closed doors. Since this a topic about control I will continue this sad
story.
I also immediatly felt wrong for kinda checking her out also.
It turned out she waited in the coffee shop for the police to show up
and keep warm. It was cold out. I couldn't even find myself sitting
there, watching as everybody but a lady behind the counter who made the
call for her actually cared. Like a inexperienced individual in the
matter I walked over and handed her some money to get what she wanted
there and to get were she was going.
Thinking later on, I was thinking what happened,and I was watching a
show on date rape drugs. Ghb was one of the drugs, but alcohol can do
the same damage. It just shows its tough being a women in this world.
The dating scene must be a weird scene not knowing who to trust and who
will hurt you. Plan ahead and have friends who care about you along or a
big brother. Even when you go to a bar. Do the same for your friends,
be a pal. As a man in this world I have seen some ill stuff I just don't
understand. Peace and plan ahead. I am not an animal or a monster but a
conserned child under God's careful eye.

Ok, I don't get much of this conversation. Mostly because so many of
you seem to be putting conditions on "When" one "could" have this
procedure done. So let me ask - When we are at war Killing, murder
is a good thing. But we should not put a sick, serial killer or mutiple
child abuser and killer to death?

So abortion is ok if ..... but not ok if..... Who the hell are any
of us to put any of these condition on the choices made here.

In the case of war, one and only ones self can decide to kill.
In abortion one and only one, the woman decides when it is right.

The only possible IF scenerio I can think of is when a woman is not of
sound and present mind to make such a decision.

Oh yeah. P.S. I'm wrong.
My daughter was never mind and always knew the real father.
I owe I owe , but Love ,Love her allways.
Her pregnent mother was without home she had no family
to goto but gave her my last name and showed her the love of Jesus. I
took insult from her mother and friends. have been stabbed and beaten.
And I still look after even though her mother left me to raise her
alone.
People call me crazy, but I'm a man.
I love very much and her mother lives with another man
that slaps and tortures her I don't understand.
I cry and cry sometimes for giving custody back with this man.
The kid does not know who what or understands who I am.
I'm her father who does understands. I'm a fool where I stand.
I just didn't want her to be left behind with no one at hand. It burns
me I'm the bad man as her mother says.
I'll burn in hell if I ever told her that I'm not her dad.
Fake as I may be. I love her Mad.
I don't talk to her much and she thinks I'm crazy which I can
understand. I just don't want her to kill her self because she has no
dad. So beat me up for being a man someday soon I'll
be a dad. I'll hurt her and she'll want to kill me.
I know she loves me , she has no food, I can't find her, and her mother
is a murderer sitting on her can. So fight me and I'll be a man. I might
not win and put me in the can.
I'm a dad who doesnot understand.

hell... men need the truth also.