actionlynx has many valid points worthy of note.
R2D2 has a unique position dealing with British thinking.
The British are different than the USA in how they 'take' things.
Its very possible they have isolating views when considering those with mental problems (no matter the reason).

I personally see British citizens as haughty in general.
Not all but many.
The British are very formal and have a "British Code" of conduct that makes R2D2's issues seem valid in a sense.
Its a behavior that "lies beneath" the overt, intended image of people.

This is common in all societies, not just the British.
However, what one thinks and what one does is often very different things on most cases.
The issue is when that inner self bleeds into the overt self.

Do we discriminate without intent?
I think we do, at different degrees.
That bias, when unchecked by morals or manners is what we see in societies.

In society, as a whole, we tend to be unwittingly indifferent or hostile.
From a distant viewpoint.
As individuals we have sympathy (for different reasons) but as a society, we tend to favor indifference (for different reasons) including to preserve our society.

What lies beneath as I see it = >
Look into the eyes of children, especially your own children, you know they are watching every bit of what you or anybody else they see do. For me it helped to be able to see the truth in what I was doing. For me, (was a dairy farmer which is capital intensive) like it is for most people, (be it in whatever field they choose) it is a financial roller-coaster that one really has no way to get off of, because you are financially chained to it. For most couples, falling in love does not mean the guy or girl is right for you. The reason I say that is because most people are little more then a dog that is chained and can't get off that chain, except with human's it is a financial chain.

For more then 90% of the people in the USA, the more one stays with the system, the more it will destroy your self determination. For most people after coming out of school, you begin to look fro a partner of the opposite sex. You get married, you buy a house by getting a mortgage, you establish a line of credit for anything else you need and so on. Both are working to keep the financial wolf from blowing your financial house down. You get tired of it, and you begin to look for a way out, but for most people there is no easy road out. All of your assets are in the house or vehicles, and it is not easy to split a house or vehicle. To prove my point just look at how many couples are forced to live in the same house yet use different rooms to live in because they can't afford a divorce.

What lies beneath -- is the legal system, a legal system that is ever more corrupted by the power of thin air credit made possible by the fractional reserve banking system, a practice whereby a bank accepts deposits, makes loans and investments and holds reserves that are a fraction of its deposit liabilities. Banks create credit out of thin air at no cost, loan it out as an IOU, and as it is paid back it becomes our money so called. That is how money in our system comes into being. No money in our system can enter into circulation in debt free form. Our legal system does not defend or follow the Constitution when it comes to money. Our Constitution states that silver and gold is money, not our fiat script. Banks loan out thin air credit that becomes an IOU in our system called money. Fed member banks hold the IOU's as deposits at the Fed. In this way thin air credit become reserves at the Fed held as currency (IOU's) and serve as deposits for leveraging the loan making process. Right now there is $2.7T in circulation (available) to pay the $80T of debt owed in the USA. There is no way a $2.7T can pay of $80T of debt. Most people in the USA have the same problem of no way to pay it. Financial problems is the number one cause of divorces. It is also the number one cause for prostitution. Ever notice the naked pictures on dating sites. At least the ones who write looking for a sex partner in their profile are saying the truth.

Beneath -- it -- all, there is a way to create your own credit but I can't tell you how because if I did I would end up in jail. But there is nothing to stop one from doing what the banks do, and have the Constitution on your side. Hypothecation, the very thing banks use to create thin air credit. - I spelled the word wrong on purpose.

I find it hard to believe that most people are shackled to a financial ball & chain.
While financial needs are often foundation for stress, there are a lot of people that exist outside the money trap.
In 25 years of a happy marriage we had bad times and good times financially but the love persisted. That's because we both felt that love, our love, was more than wealth.
Someone who is richly loved is never really poor.
Sadly, it was drug addiction that ended us.

What lies beneath (from a sympathy POV) is something else entirely.
Many people are deluded without knowing.
Many people put up a 'front' so they can appear to be something they are not.
Often referred to as "two-faced" but many times without personal understanding that they are.
That's because a lot of people are so involved with maintaining appearances they reject their baseline.
Problem is, that baseline rears its ugly head more often than not.
Then they are left to deal with the consequences.
Consequences like stress, lies and apologies.

Being in denial of oneself prevents a positive change.
Too many people appear to be sympathetic to others but really are not.
It gets out in the open sometimes because it is much harder to maintain a delusion than it is to act naturally.

If more people would be honest with themselves about how they actually feel, they might be able to change to a point where they are what they seem.
The stress diminishes because there is no longer a need to lie or apologize. Ya get happier inside.

Society is a melting pot of people's personal appearances and not a combination of peoples true reactions.
That's why, most people will think of themselves as sympathetic yet act in contrast.
Finding oneself requires personal honesty, brutal honesty.

sure you can notice evil in peoples actions ...

are they mental ... not always ... if it involved thinking about doing something wrong before the act ... that is not always mental ... that is evil ... least what I think ... others can be helped ... but not always ... seems drugs do some damage ... to someone and makes them think erratically... like what bath salts do + heroin and crack ... some evil people do for their own pleasures and get off on that ... being serial killers or just like abusing and killing ... some are copy cats ... some are just hateful and believe others that are a different color then them should not be allowed to exist and are racist... some carry their hate with them all their life ... and think their right ... but can be willfully evil by hurting another ... becouse of their own way of life ... take for example... the Indians where here first ... yes.. before all of the different migrants ... so when others say they where hurt ... think do not even think about the Indians and what have happened to them through out the USA ... others have taken their land& degraded and killed them ...and are constantly keeping them depressed...by drugs and liquor ... and not giving them any kind of other life to succeed ...

but do all the other cultures here care what happens to them ... not many ... all they want to do is try and says we are the first look what we have been through ... here or being migrants here later in life...


but getting back to someone being evil ... some you can see signs sometimes it can just to late to see it ...

and agree evil can just be a way of thinking for some...

In relation to some of the posts regarding myself, and some of my views.
I could be wrong, but...
I believe most people in America see a shrink voluntarily. I believe most of them pay. I believe most of them can switch shrinks at a drop of a hat if they choose to. I believe that they live in society where suing people is common.
In Britain unless your rich, you have the n.h.s. ( the national health service) . and they do many good things, such as if you have a broken bone, or need a stitching. Many other countries would like to have this. And you don't have to pay, although you've already been taxed heavily for this privelige, and much of the money is fiddled away.
However, when it comes to shrinks, the n.h s. Are bloody awful, and there ain't spit you can do about it. We have some paticulary cruel and archaic laws about this sort of thing.
As for psychiatric drugs altering your brain chemistry, and that, that can be seen in a scan, well that's what I said dufus
What I said was that schizophrenia , the incurable brain disease, does not , show up on a scan. And that it does not exist, and that it hasn't been proven, because it is impossible to prove
I've also said, that a common stunt that they pull, and indeed, did try, to pull on me, is this.
They show you a picture with 2 brain scans . The scans look different. They tell you, that 1 of the scans is of a 'normal brain' , they tell you that the other scan is of a 'schizophrenic brain'. They try to use this to 'prove' to you, that 'you' have schizophrenia. If you take a moment to actually look a little closer. In my case, they'd began to walk away, I asked them to return, so that I could take another look.
Then you can clearly see that both scans have small writing underneath them, and are labeled. Yes 1 is labeled, a 'normal' brain. But the other is labeled a brain on 'antipsychotics'.
Why not show a scan of all 3? Why lie?
Sometimes silence speaks volumes. And the answer is bloody obvious. Why are you trying to pull the wool over my eyes, I asked. I of course reicieved no answer.
You could sue, and move shrinks.
I am pariahed

There is no such thing as schizophrenia. Shrinks are charlatans. Drug companies make millions. Shrinks live in big houses, and drive fancy cars.

You have completely misquoted , or/and misunderstood me.

Shrinks, the/rapists, Prozac and xanax, seem to be the fashion in America.

There are only a few reasons why someone would think they have a non-physical brain abnormality.

- hurting others or themselves
- seeking some type of disability claim
- trying to justify behavior that is anti/un social
- inner turmoil

Then there are those that have experience a physical change to their brains from a wide range of things that could happen to a person.

Schizophrenia can be linked to a physical change in the chemistry of the brain that causes misfiring (so to speak) of the chemo-electrical impulses of synapse. Defective axons or dendrites, out of balance chemical compounds can cause this among other physical ailments.
These aliments are not detectable from scans. Actual chemical samples must be evaluated under a wide range of stimuli.
The human brain is extremely complex and we (as a species) still know very little about it.

Let me give you an example as it relates to my own life.

All my life, I 'felt' some degree of depression. That sneaking feeling of depression was undefined as in I couldn't really put a finger on it as a cause for my strange behavior. So, all my life, I have experienced different degrees of depression that I may or may not have labeled as depression.
Then, at the edge of suicide I sought help.
The Psychiatrists took samples, the psychologists tested me and talked with me and I honestly answered, responding naturally, without reservation.
The psychiatrist put me on Paxil, it didn't help. I told him it wasn't helping and he changed my formula. We went thru this for about 2 months and 4 different meds till we finally found the right med (venlafaxine) that worked.
When I took that med, I didn't feel any effects but it seemed like I could think clearer than ever in my life. I honestly related the experience to my physiologist and we adjusted the strengths and I started getting better.
After about a year, I started getting headaches and I told my dr and she reduced the dosage and I felt good again. Then about 5 moths later again, more head aches, another reduction and better again.
The next time I felt the headaches, she stopped the meds completely. I have been fine ever since. I keep a bottle of low dose available on my RX list just in case but haven't needed it.

In my case, I had a chemical imbalance in my brain that was causing me depressive thoughts all my life. They corrected the imbalance and my brain started producing what I needed or stopped producing what I didn't need (i'm not sure which) and now I am med free for my depression. I still check in with my psychologist once a year just to touch base.

The point I am making is that scans would not show that imbalance. The imbalance was a natural process of my brain. My chemical makeup.
The fix was multiform. Chemical, counseling and my own desire to fix myself. The drugs and therapy alone was not enough. I had to make a personal effort to understand and overcome my affliction. Essentially, the meds and therapy were tools I used to fix myself. I stay fix because I choose not to go there again.

That being said, I do understand that some people are fighting a greater battle and fully understand that what worked for me may not work for others. We should all find our own fixes, whatever works for you and all that.
But, consider this... If what you're doing isn't working for you, doncha think its time to try a different approach?

Hell yes I think it's time to try a different approach, that's my entire point. But like you told me the other day, don't try to change the system, just try to understand the nature of the beast
I'm glad you got better Tom. I still maintain that schizophrenia does not exsist. Have you considered the placebo effect, apparently this works in around 50% of cases. Thus telling somebody that they have no chance of recovery, as they have an incurable brain disease, is in fact a lie and a negative placebo effect. And as I've said many times before, regarding the scan stunt that I've mentioned. Why do that? Why lie?
I often feel deppresed, though I believe I have a valid reason as to why. I was on anti deppresents for awhile. The shrink asked me how they were. I said I felt no less depressed, but that I did feel more sleepy. He smiled , and said good, and told me to keep taking them. After awhile I stopped taking them. In jail somebody wanted to buy them from me, as they told me that there was a small amount of sleeping tablet in everyone, I think it was around 7.5 mg of sleeping tablet in every 30mg.

Perhaps the only way forward is for a more responsible attitude towards social engineering and education. I think younger people especially educate themselves primarily using media from the internet, is it any wonder that they are increasingly plagued with mental problems. A good friend of mine has worked in mental health for the last35 years. He says the amount of young people with problems has risen quite dramatically in recent years. there are no easy answers are there?

Forums like this, do much to enhance personal growth. I think you're a pretty cool bunch:)

I totally agree. I have a personal opinion that it is a spark that is getting closer and closer to the explosive.

First step, we started breaking down family structure with utopian ideal such as all we need is love, roles don't matter, mothers and fathers(when we have them) should be 'working' outside the home and kids don't benefit from mother and father, as long as there is LOVE.

Then, we introduced all this misinformation and shallow propoganda by way of internet and cable, which became REQUIRED to watch television basically. (remember when broadcast TV was regulated and had a time when it WENT OFF?)

Then we spread the idea that technology is the answer to all our problems because machines are just better and more 'efficient' than we are, so all the jobs and efforts we make should be turned over to machines as well. Easier(also able to be interpreted as lazier) and faster are better.

Currently, we are attempting to make a monolithic culture, where everyone must approve of and support what everyone else does, short of murder and theft, there is no gender distinction, everyone should be included in everything all the time.

I don't think the 'engineering' is anything as blatant as brainwashing or conspiracies. I do think the natural ending to the path we started all those years ago, with rejecting any type of common cultural expectations for families, is a society engineered towards elimination of individuality or independent thought.

Human beings are social animals. We are currently the most advanced social animal on the planet. If you think about what it means to be sociable, there is an ever rising trend towards an ultimate goal. To be one with all others.

I think the driving force for sociability is the awareness of individuality.
We are a social animal the exists as an individual, we do not have a hive mind.

In our species quest to feel united as one, we devise methods that allow us to feel closer sociably. Television, politics, religion are examples of us trying to become one. No other social animal on the planet displays any similar trends. We haven't witnessed dolphins or chimpanzees holding an election or listening to a sermon. Rats don't gather in front of a device and watch Biker Mice From Mars on a Saturday morning. You don't see beavers using chainsaws or pouring cement.

Thinking about technology and sociability as applied to humans I see it as a device that is designed to allow people more time to interact with each other. We load a dishwasher and it gives us more time to interact instead of being shackled in front of a sink doing dishes. You can walk 10 miles to town and back again to visit a friend but if you drive, you get to spend more time visiting.

"What lies Beneath" is a old movie title.

Thriller involves much deceitfulness .

Michelle Pfeiffer

I have come to the same conclusions myself, and it is refreshing to see that independent thought is still alive and kicking.
As the old saying goes, "reliance on machines decreases brain power"
The internet was a brilliant innovation, to find out all sorts of things but as you say it is so full of misinformation. you still need the mental tools to discriminate.
And the only way to develop those tools is the exchange of ideas between individual view points. I applaud people who think differently. Without that we wouldn't have progressed beyond hunting mating and fighting. The link between so called mental illness and creativity is explored quite well Joe Griffin & Ivan Tyrells book The Brains Big Bang. A bit heavy going for some, but I don't think you would find it so. One or two tools within that book :)