This past week, opinions have been stated about perceived deception or lies of either Ford or Kavanaugh and what that lie or deception means.

This brought up for me a question about what I think is the myth of lying(or running from authorities), due to guilt. I think it is a false conclusion that lying (or running from authorities) is necessarily an indication of guilt.


Let me give a for instance.

If you had a crazy spouse who tended to believe you were cheating on them and you had a friend of the opposite sex that you met for lunch, you may be tempted to lie about that friend, even though you are not guilty of cheating, because you know that your innocence will not be believed, EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE INNOCENT.

The same is true of running from police. I liken it to an innocent person and a lynch mob who BELIEVES they are guilty. It is sometimes not enough to know of your OWN INNOCENCE, many times people react based on what they know of how OTHERS view their innocence and what the consequence of THEIR belief might be.


Of course, the liar is ALWAYS guilty of the charge of deception, but the motive for that deception is definitely not always a reflection of their guilt with anything else.


I wonder how many here have always believed a lie is evidence of guilt?

As a part of my combined life of studying history (in order to understand how people work), and my work as a problem solver, I came to be suspicious of people who want me to make ASSUMPTIONS about someone else, because they caught that person in a lie.

I ended up directly studying logic itself, as a subset of studying higher mathematics, and as a necessary part of understanding human political and social behavior.

In particular, I learned to watch carefully for what EXACTLY is proven when someone does lie, or when they state something as being a fact, which is not a fact (not quite the same as lying...when you think you are saying something factual and you are wrong, you aren't lying).

All that a lie proves by itself, is that the person saying it, doesn't want to tell the truth. It does NOT, by itself, prove what the truth actually IS. TAke the recent KAvanaugh mess as an example. It's clear that Kavanaugh told "less than the truth" about his past. However, that lack of factuality doesn't prove that he is guilty of everything that his accusers said about him, it only proves that he doesn't want to be honest about himself and his past.

When it comes to running away, it's even more important to be SPECIFIC about what can and can't be deduced from the behavior. All that can be factually deduced when someone runs, is that they want to leave in a hurry. There is no way to know why they want to leave, without further investigation.

If a person is lying about who they are with they can't be trusted. I've always found that where there is smoke, there is fire. That includes myself.
We just had the cops called at my grandsons football game. Nobody ran. Why would they?

People try to avoid trouble, which is sometimes determined by the behavior of those in the authority to cause it for them. They sometimes lie or run to avoid that trouble, not because the person in authority is right, but because they have the authority to make their lives hell as a result of believing they are right about that person's guilt.

People react to their interactions, and the history of interactions with other people. In situations where authority has had positive interactions and assumptions, they probably are less likely to run or lie, than in situations where authority has had negative interactions and assumptions about them, particularly younger people.

Hopefully, the older we get, the more equipped we are to handle the obstacles of stereotypes and assumptions, even from authority.

When I catch someone in a lie, I know that I can't believe anything that person says. I believe in the truth, even when it has consequences. I was raised that way.

By that measure, doesn't that mean that you currently don't trust ANYONE in the federal government, from the President on down? They've all been caught in lies of one degree or another.

Most people I've dealt with, even the ones who think they are tough on lies, actually have multiple and often complicated levels and degrees of lying that they make judgments about. Obviously, a small child who lies to avoid punishment for minor infractions (taking an extra cookie) aren't going to be condemned to the same degree as an adult who lies for personal gain. Even when someone is NOT politically biased, they still will accept SOME lies, and reject and punish over others.

I don't trust anyone in politics. I choose the ones who are doing what's best for our country. Most don't follow through on their campaign promises.
In my own personal life I've done stupid things. No reason to lie about it. When ending relationship or dating I try not to be cruel. If I'm pressed for answer I'm honest about what's not working.
I'm honest about my political feelings. I don't care if Trump had an affair with stormy. I don't care if Trump was digging up dirt on Hillary. Those are things I assumed were happening before the democrats tantrums about it.

When someone is in a relationship they usually spend less time with friends. Nothing wrong with going out with friends as a couple. If someone is having lunch with someone of the opposite sex and lying about it, there is a problem.

You pick your battles. Not all who run are guilty. Some realize no matter what they do or say they will be considered guilty because either someone is after them or they just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

.


You pick your battles. Not all who run are guilty. Some realize no matter what they do or say they will be considered guilty because either someone is after them or they just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.



This.

I think the key is to not live a life where you feel like you have to run. For instance; don't be hanging out with drug addicts/dealers. Then you won't have to run because you swear its not yours and you've never done drugs. Don't be hanging out with thieves, murders, etc.

So your example, if the wife just happens by the restaurant and sees the husband in there having innocent lunch one of two things will happen. He will run and look guilty or he will stay there and introduce his friend to his wife. Which one of those do you think would work better? Not running.

Also a lie isn't an indication of guilt, but it's a reason to dig deeper.

In truth, I wasnt referring to a wife walking in on the lunch. I was speaking about talking with the wife later about what you did that day, or where you had been when she called you at lunchtime. Often, to avoid the hassle of an insecure spouse, one may be less than truthful about WHO they were at lunch with.

I agree lies require deeper investigation, not everyone tells lies for the same reason, not everyone even realizes what they are saying is not true many times. People repeating lies that they happen to believe are not being deceptive, which to me, is the main 'crime' of lying, an intent to deceive.

In truth, I wasnt referring to a wife walking in on the lunch. I was speaking about talking with the wife later about what you did that day, or where you had been when she called you at lunchtime. Often, to avoid the hassle of an insecure spouse, one may be less than truthful about WHO they were at lunch with.

I agree lies require deeper investigation, not everyone tells lies for the same reason, not everyone even realizes what they are saying is not true many times. People repeating lies that they happen to believe are not being deceptive, which to me, is the main 'crime' of lying, an intent to deceive.