The 'formless' encased in a 'form' (human organism), composed of 'families' of superpositioned photons, exchanging levels of 'in-lighten-meant' with contiguous other 'families'... a veritable 'propagating fractal'... cumulative 'ex-per-I-ins' within the greater 'experience' of the 'Whole' (hole).

We must, must learn to relax, all that we are (when it's real-I'zed), and 'allow' ourselves to simply 'be'!

In the release of all 'self and other' concepts and extensions of these, lies the peace (piece) that surpasses all understanding... for our 'projections' (the fractals of a 'self) belong ONLY to it's source, and not to any OTHER.

There are no 'bars', except as we perceive them, no borders or boundaries, except as we define them, no 'us's and them' except as we separate them. As human 'forms', we must navigate through all 'dimensions and levels' of 'being' (Be-in-g)... never forgetting that there is only One... in which we simply 'are'.

We are but a 'particle and wave' of light... an 'ill-lumina-shun' extending through the 're-flex-shun' (mirror) of paradox. A lesson of our own 'beginning and ending'... The 'cycle' (psy-cull) of our own 'con-fusion' (One-ness). It's 'All and Nothing' at once, 'Is and isn't' now. There has never been a time that hasn't been 'All-ways'. And there will never 'be'.

You either just contradicted yourself or spoke out of "faith":
If you say that all energy is what makes up the universe and that energy cannot be created nor get lost (be destroyed) and that you are part of the energy of the universe and "god" being the total sum of the universe, then where does the energy come from that makes up the universe to begin with? It had to come from somewhere. Some energy are particles others we haven't really found out what it is at all (i.e.light). So no matter how far you go back and how small you get into quantum physics or sub atomic particles, no matter how many times you want to split them to explain their existence, there has to be a "creation" of energy (particles or matter) somewhere at some point.
So either the universe had to be "created" somewhere by what or whom? or if God = total amount of energy of universe, then that means it always had to be there without beginning or end as logical conclusion. So either god was created by something or someone or God was always there without a beginning. And then God was the one that formed you out of his energy and made you.
Interesting enough. Sounds like faith to me.

All your questions are answered in the various threads here.
I could go looking and quote them but perhaps you should just read them.

I referenced God and religion as a way religious people might understand what I wrote.

One thing that must be considered is we don't now the baseline unit of energy.
Since we are part of the energy of the Universe, we can't have an outside view.
If you think about it, energy is movement, movement is heat. At true absolute zero, there is no movement/heat so there is no energy.

If everything were AZ and movement/heat were initiated, we don't know the value of the energy needed.
Therefore, all the energy of the Universe might exist in that initial change of state and we are merely products of that energy over time.
Time exists because energy causes a continuous state change. At AZ, there is no energy, no change of state so no time.

If the argument is what caused the initial change of state that initiated the Universe there is no way to know because that would require a view from outside the Universe and since everything which exists is part of the Universe, impossible to know.
Any speculation is just that, speculation.

What I'm saying is everything we call the Universe may be a single energy.
Force, matter, heat and time are all just a single unit of energy. The product of the original change of state.

But how do you explain one member of Mingle forums who astral travels? He leaves his body in spirit form and has encountered beings of light. His experiences are very real to him and I truly believe his experiences are valid.

Sorry still a contradiction. Since matter and energy exists and you even quoted the laws that define it. This universe and the energy that is contained in it has to still be "created" (come from somewhere) even if the universe is part of another "outside" universe, it still had to have some sort of beginning and even if there was only ONE particle that "exploded" for whatever reason. So since you do not know and for you this then becomes a theory, but not science, since science can only study the known, given facts and might even extrapolate from there but when that is exhausted then you end up with speculation and in order to carry that theory the only thing left is carrying it in "faith" , you will not get around that, it is what it is!
And even though 0 Kelvin (which is a only a theoretical state) means everything stops and energy stops moving the atoms (yet matter still exists and doesn't just cease to exist in that state), yet light still penetrates it (moves through it!), can't explain that, (nobody knows yet) all only by faith!

We could discuss this this till the cows come home, but we would not reach any further insight into the detailed matter of matter in this case, but I want to leave this with some thoughts and quotes of people that are the great minds behind of what we are discussing, who know far more about this and discovered the building blocks we now can build on.

BTW, speaking of Kelvin:

- “As the depth of our insight into the wonderful works of God increases, the stronger are our
feelings of awe and veneration in contemplating them and in endeavoring to approach their
Author…So will he [the earnest student] by his studies and successive acquirements be led
through nature up to nature’s God.”
“I believe that the more thoroughly science is studied, the further does it take us from anything comparable to atheism.”
“If you study science deep enough and long enough, it will force you to believe in God.”
--William Lord Kelvin (d. 1907), inventor of the Kelvin temperature scale, ennobled for for
his feats in science and engineering.--

“Astronomy leads us to a unique event, a universe which was created out of nothing, and delicately balanced to provide exactly the conditions required to support life. In the absence of an absurdly improbable accident, the observations of modern science seem to suggest an underlying, one might say, supernatural plan.”

—Arno Penzias, winner of the 1978 Nobel Prize in Physics.


“Astronomers now find they have painted themselves into a corner because they have proven, by their own methods, that the world began abruptly in an act of creation to which you can trace the seeds of every star, every planet, every living thing in this cosmos and on the earth. And they have found that all this happened as a product of forces they cannot hope to discover…. That there are what I or anyone would call supernatural forces at work is now, I think, a scientifically proven fact.”

–Robert Jastrow, the astronomer and physicist who founded NASA’s Goddard Institute of Space Studies, as cited in his book God and the Astronomers.



Where man's thoughts end, God begins:
“Religion and science demand for their foundation faith in God. For the former (religion), God
stands foremost; for the latter (science), at the end of all thought, For religion He represents a
basis; for science, a crowning solution towards a world view.”
“There can never be any real opposition between religion and science; for the one is the complement of the other. Every serious and reflective person realizes, I think, that the religious element in his nature must be recognized and cultivated if all the powers of the human soul are to act together in perfect balance and harmony. And indeed it was not by accident that the greatest thinkers of all ages were deeply religious souls.”
---Max Planck (d. 1947), the founder of quantum physics and one of the most important
physicists of the twentieth century.


Last but not least one of the "fathers" of Physics:

“The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets could only proceed from the counsel
and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.”
“God created everything by number, weight and measure.”
“In the absence of any other proof, the thumb alone would convince me of God’s existence.”
“I have a fundamental belief in the Bible as the Word of God, written by those who were inspired. I study the Bible daily.”

—Sir Isaac Newton, who is widely regarded to have been the greatest scientist the world has ever produced


There are hundreds more, but it seems like everyone of these great minds, if they research with and open mind come to the same conclusion - the universe was created by intelligent design, the chance of pure coincidences and chance cannot be mathematically nor physically conceived !

Ignore my post... Good on both of you. My heroes....

Not only can I get out of body, but I can move stuff around, sometimes heavy stuff... go through anything I see so far, and I could, but I don't, go into others.... The only time I do that is when this body is dying, and I take over another that has given up, and only that...(drugs, booze, bad suicide attempt, or some other affliction where their body's on the brink but can recover and they leave) and I take over and nurse it back to health. painful, sure, but feasible. There's some out there that have been doing this for many millennia.

There's so much out there. so many different beings. It's insanely big, and with true immortality, you still will never see even a smidgen of it.

Humans think they are the center of this... they couldn't be more wrong. we are next to nothing in this. there are so many beings that are so far ahead of us in EVERYTHING. kinda like us talking to an amoeba.



Good Luck.

First let me say I do not dismiss God or Faith.

You quote like it means something to me?
You assume I believe our current science is reality.
What I believe is our current understanding is limited.
Limited because we have not been looking long enough to actually know for sure, anything.
But, science is looking. It is following reasonable paths to true understanding. Mankind will search for understanding until our capacity reaches its natural limit, then we will use what we have gleaned to construct something able to search at a higher capacity.
Its my belief, my faith, that if there truly is a God, its intent is for its creation to understand the realm in which it exists.
To me, God and religion have nothing in common. Religion restricts, controls, makes promises to rewards or punishments. Not something a God would need or want. Religion is created by men to control other men.

You imply matter and energy are separate things.
This is limited thinking.
It hasn't been truth since the first atom was split.
Every atom in the Universe is made of energy. Every atom a potential atomic explosion. Matter is nothing but condensed energy.
Mankind's understanding of nuclear fission and fusion are rudimentary at best. With our understanding, we are limited to certain elements but all atoms have energy is any atom has energy. The fusion/fission limits may be beyond our capacity but I'm sure hypernova have no problem attaining such reactions. Its how the elements of the Universe are created and destroyed.
Both from energy to energy over and over as time marches on.

As for the creation of the Universe as we experience it now, it started long before any big bang. The big bang was merely the result of cause and effect.
I believe this Universe initiated from a sudden change of state.
Space and time are the result of that state change.
So, what caused the initial state change.
God? Perhaps.
I mean why not?
Nobody can ever know for sure and God is as good a speculation as any.

If you think about the flow of time, it can be explained as a sequence of state changes. Like a motion picture is a sequence of image changes.
Time merely has a seriously fast shutter speed. Beyond our capacity to isolate one state from the next. A failure of our capacity not reality's.
If you can consider this, you might ask what governs these state changes which causes time to exist.
Perhaps it is the same God which initiated the first state change?
So God was not only the first but also will be the last and is ever present as long as time exists.
Perhaps God exists outside AND within every moment of time and energy.
Perhaps God is the energy that composes the Universe?
Plus, consider that you, I and everything else that exists is part of this same Universe, perhaps we are made of the energy of God and we use our little piece of energy while we exist. That when we cease to exist, that energy is returned to the whole.
You can substitute God for anything you can imagine, turtle, filter, cyclotron, anything.

I choose to believe what I believe because it makes sense to me.
Religion tells you what you should believe whether it makes sense or not.
The faith is needed for when it makes no sense.
I have faith in my beliefs which make no sense but one thing I have that religion doesn't want me to have is the ability to change my faith and my beliefs. My beliefs and faith in them are ever-changing, much like the Universe of which I am composed.

OK, so I NEVER like discussing this, nor disclosing this, but in 1989 I was "murdered" while working a second night job that I agreed to take on.

I was covering the overnight shift for a pal of mine whose families home had burned down a week earlier, it was a drizzling, chily October Friday night, a car with 4 or 5 "gu i do" (<it keeps trying to censor that word out) dewshbags looking for people to mug/rob for coke money so they could get high all jumped out from a car that pulled in front of me and blocked m path, the dweebs all surrounded me at the entrance to the job site, they all had some type of weapon, bats, pipes, whatever.

While I managed to fight the first one or two off, all I do remember is looking up and seeing what was the fatal blow coming towards me while I was being held so that I could not move out of the way!

A co-worker who saw, but did NOTHING to help me eventually called 911, EMS was, luckily for me, I guess, only about one block away, they arrived quickly and after performing CPR and shocking the bejeezus out of me with the paddles, they brought me back.

I was told that I was "dead" for at least 7 or 8 minutes, possibly longer.

During the time that I was dead, and it was NOT a dream, I saw my body laying on the ground where I went down, I could hear sounds coming from everywhere, yelling, screaming, laughing, running, etc., I began to look around and than a sort of familiar face was staring at me and saying "No! This is NOT your time yet, you have to go back now, they're not ready for you, you are not supposed to be here just yet, go back, you have the new baby to raise!" (My than long time GF and I had our first of two sons only 11 weeks prior to this night!). At first I wasn't sure who the person speaking to me was, than it hit me and I yelled out "Noni? Is that YOU", she replied "Yes, it's ME, I know, I look younger, I knew you no recognize me!"

"Noni" was my late grandmother who died unexpectedly when I was only 8 years old of a dissected aorta, she was only 65, and that was 14 years earlier.

She looked so much younger, like she was only 16 to 19 when he spoke to me that night and I had NEVER once in my life seen any photos of her looking that young! I still have never seen any young photos of any of my late grandparents and I don't believe any exist.

I remember asking her where my grandfather was, was he around somewhere too?, "Can I see him", She replied "No, I no see him, not even once since I got here!".

I than asked her if she knew how she got there, she said "I know I died, I guess, but not why!", I told her "The coroner said that your Aorta ruptured and that's why you dropped to the kitchen floor and than you died on the way to the E.R., and mom has been a real mental mess ever since!" which is exactly what happened.
Her face changed and became much sadder and said "Tell her to shut up and stop crying over me and go have a nice life, there is much more than just me!"

I than asked her if she had seen my late father since she had been "there", she replied "Nah, a few times, long ago, but not for a very long time now, I don't know where he is, he was with his sister!".

I didn't even know my aunt was dead at that point, I thought she was just still living out in San Diego. My family lost touch with her shortly after my father died and months later, after I finally got out of the hospital, I found out after making a few phone calls that she, my aunt, died of the exact same causes as my dad, her brother died from and she died only 1 year after my father died!

They both died from lung and spinal cancer!

I KNOW I could NOT have been dreaming, because even if I had only been asleep and in a subconscious state, my mind would NOT ever have known what my grandmother looked like at a young age, and it certainly would NOT have known about my aunt's death!

I also asked her "Is this heaven or hell?", She said "Bah, that's just all nonsense" and went on to say, "there is NO "heaven and no hell, that's all bulls**t", "there is just "here", nothing else, nowhere else, and everyone I ever knew or heard of is here, one day you too will see them all!"

She kept saying "Now go!, you have to go back!, go back now!, go be with that nice new baby and your girl, she seems nice, one day you will be back here, but not yet!, you have things to do first!", "I'll be here for you when you come back someday, now GO!", "maybe pop will be with me when you get here!".

And than I remember feeling like I was being pulled away from her and looking down and yelling down at the EMS people, the cops and FDNY who were all around me to "Stop trying to bring me back, I don't want to come back!, I have more questions and I need answers!", but than "whoosh"!, That was it!

The next thing I recall was being sat up by a couple EMS guys who kept asking me tons of questions, than I was trying to ask them "Was I dead, or just unconscious?", the EMT lady looked at her partner as if to say "You answer that one, man!", to which HE said "Dude! You were dead!, dead, dead ,dead and for at least 8 minutes, possibly longer now don't try to talk too much, your jaw, cheek, eye socket and orbital all seem smashed, your going to tart feeling an enormous amount of pain soon and we want to get to the E.R. before that begins!

One cop who had been standing there watching it all leaned in and said to the lady EMT "Yeah, he was gone, like GONE, gone?", the EMT replied "Oh, he was gone man, go put that in your report!"

Than I remember the cop asking a second cop "Hey, we can get them for murder now, cant we?", even though I was brought back and WAS sitting there with my head and face bashed in and bleeding!

Just so you know, I had over 60 hours of operations, 18 straight hours were the very next night to begin repairing the busted bones, repair my eye, which is fine now, torn muscles and tissue and nerves in my face that were all torn or destroyed and after it all, I have only 1 thin scar inside my mouth from where they went in with than brand new fiber optic micro surgical equipment that had NEVER been used on a LIVE body before and lost some teeth!

I had to have dozens of 2 to 4 hour operations once per week over the next 3 years to help put everything back together again from the inside!

Yes, I lived with a TON of pain for at least 6 years!

And yes I also tried to sue to company I worked for and for a few reasons, but NO!, I never got a dime, the co. was quickly shuttered and claimed "bankruptcy", but later relocated and reopened under a different assumed name and I couldn't go after them then! Sneaky pricks!

Without my knowledge, while I was suffering in the hospital, some "good friends" of mine ended up finding out who the ***** that did it were, only 1 still lives, but he's in a chair for the rest of his days!
I have never confronted him, but if I did I'm not sure, I think I would do the same to him as he did to me and I would gladly bash his skull right on in!

But yes!, In all honesty, have seen the "other side"!
"Spirits" DO live on!
NO! there is NO "God"
NO! there are NO "Angels"
That is all man made up NONSENSE!
And also why I always felt that ALL religion was fake and nonsense, but once it was confirmed, I fully gave up ALL religion and I DO feel bad for anyone with a weak mind that believes any of that total B.S.!!

Also, ever since that happened weird paranormal things have happened at my families home on a daily basis!

Hey, if you don't believe me, give me a shout, you are more than welcome to come on by and experience the goings on here for yourself!

Many others WERE non believers, till they came here, guess what?
Now they believe in "ghosts" or "spirits" and a few will not return, even some lifelong friends and relatives! lol!

And I guess our bodies ARE just mere shells in which our "spirit" resides, until it's time is up and we move on to that "place"' where my Noni was, and "reincarnation" is only if and when you get sent "back here again" inside a new body!

What I've disclosed here today IS absolutely all FACT and did all happen exactly the way I've typed it!
31 years later I DO remember every second of it as if it just happened 2 seconds ago!

What a horrific tale!

I died but nothing like being murdered.
I collided with a tree one winter and died on the way to the hospital.
Paramedics were able to revive me.

I saw things too.
I spent a few years trying to make sense of what I experienced while I was dead.
Religion failed to explain it.
Wasn't till I started researching how the brain works that I realized my brain was in emergency mode. I was forcing my brain to keep oxygen in a last ditch all out effort to jump start my body.
My brain was firing everything it could which made me hallucinate in the extreme.
When they revived me, everything hurt.
I felt like I snapped back into my body.
I crapped my pants, peed and blew snot all over myself.
I had a serious headache.

What happened is my brain fired all signals in an attempt to jumpstart my heart again. My sense of presence expanded, everything got louder and my nerves were electrified. I had never been more aware than at that moment.
Memories flooded me with acute detail.
As time ticked by I could feel those sensation diminishing then I felt the jolt of the paddles.
I suspect if there were no outside forces to revive me, I would have slipped away into oblivion.
It was soothing and peaceful emptiness.
No pain, no worries, no memories, no me.

I no longer fear death.
I'm not looking to die but when the time comes, I won't know it because ... well, I'll be dead.

Thank you for sharing and I am sorry you had to go through that. Blessings to you and yours