I notice a running theme in political topics and that is two very persistent themes seem to always emerge.

1. It will happen anyway, so why act?

or

2. It's happening, I think its awful, so do something.


It is there in every argument or debate or discussion.

on the wall, two themes.

1. the wall wont stop illegal immigration
or
2. We must have a bigger wall because of illegal immigration.

on gun safety, two themes.

1. Gun laws wont stop killing.
or
2. We must have better gun laws because of all the killing.


on politicians

1. people are gonna do dirt, so nothing matters, nothing can be done
or
2. hold people accountable for the dirt they do, when possible, even if it only stops THAT person.


... I wonder how consistently I fall to one side or the other sometimes. I feel like I dont expect perfection but I try to assess some logical effort towards improving a situation.

On the wall, I know people will always break laws and find other ways to get in and that we ALREADY have a wall, BUT I do feel that the real issue is immigration and not illegal immigration, and feel there should be BETTER laws and processes to decrease the issues and the cost of 'illegal immigration'

On gun safety, I know people will always kill, but I feel as far as how many are gunned down senselessly(especially children attending school) I feel that better gun laws and gun sale laws could be created and enforced to decrease how often it happens and how many lose their lives.

On politicians, I feel it is a job and in terms of assessment and discipline should be like any other. I feel politicians should be qualified for their office and no longer employed if they break the rules or regulations of that job. I feel their personal life should not be assessed, only the way they perform their JOB. I feel also that it is important the image they present in public, just like in any other job, as it pertains to the image of their employers. I feel that standards and judgments should be consistent regardless of party lines or affiliations.


Are you a 'nothing will change it' kind of person, or a 'something needs to be done person' or do you find that your position changes based upon the politics, the party, or the person?

Lets see what Congress feels like deciding to put forth ! The Politicians make the laws for America.

I tend to think what would be a positive forward for this Nation. That includes most everything that the Democratics are against.

The media peope love demos lies , and will meet them for lunch. ( WTAX radio)

I think for those who may have the attitude that nothing will change is because they are powerless to change it..Why even here in the forums we may have ideas that we may want to see incorporated..who are you going to tell..

Red tape and bs are ever present there are several ways to change a lot of the problems we have and it lies in the technological advancements that we are experiencing present day..

No need for a wall when there are satellites self docking drones and microchip implants,signature guns and no telling what else lies within our grasp..we just need to embrace it at a faster pace..rather than waiting for something to happen..

While none of these are 100% they would drastically reduce and for now that's far better than doing nothing..The problem is that technology is advancing too bad the intelligence of those who could implement them are not....

I dont agree with technology being the answer, advancing technology, to me, seems to be advancing inhumanity. I know we are moving towards an 'artificial' existence with science and tech as the new God, but I am not looking forward to helping it along or bringing it on any faster.

With an ever advancing society ..you can't live in the past forever..As far as being the new God a bit of a stretch don't you think..

I know I Cant live in the past, I can have hopes for a BETTER future though, instead of the lazy entitled inhumane and greedy one we're hell bent on achieving.

I think the new God is spot on.

God :a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship

worship: to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion

I seriously doubt that people who are religious are going to replace their devotion to God with a machine or technology..I mean if they did I suppose they weren't that devoted in the first place..still reaching...

probably true of most, but many religious will have a new God and many who are not will finally have a God of their own.

my approach is not so fatalistic as "nothing will change" but
more towards the realistic that "change will come eventually"
just probably not in my life time...

big change doesn't happen overnight nor over decades..

i have faith in the youth of the world who will undoubtedly
become the leaders of the future...provided, we educate them
and instill in them compassion for their fellow man..

i'm not worried, i think they will do just fine because
IMO the good ones far outnumber the bad...

I hope you are correct

Yeah. I'm not seeing it either. Sad to say, but then I could be looking in all the wrong places.

you don't see what is not presented to you...

when i watched coverage of Cruz shooting in Florida, yes
it was horrific that one kid could wreak such havoc, but
i made a mental note of great number of kids who were running
from the one...those kids are the many you don't see or hear
about they are the good kids, our future is in their hands,
not the single one pulling the trigger..they are deemed
un-newsworthy their achievements generally aren't noticed
by the media...they will recover from the damage done by the
one, just as i feel society, as a whole, will recover from
from the damage done by the few who dwell among us...

Seems like your saying I don't presume enough good will to be able to see, or see the future for how great its going to be at the rate things are going. Although I do appreciate the response.

i'm not saying anything about you personally.
my comment would be the same regardless of who said
"they aren't seeing it either"

sometimes you have to focus on more than the obvious to see the good in a given situation...that's all i meant

i appreciate your candor...

Okay, I think what msharmony alluded to in the opening post, is the decidedly BINARY way that so many modern debates are framed, especially the more political ones. All about something being entirely good, or entirely bad; that a problem either really exists, or everything is fine; and very often, that we have to choose between exactly TWO possible solutions.

I gave up on the BINARY approach to problems a very long time ago now, after I noticed that the people who most wanted me to assume it was all or nothing, were all dishonest in one way or another.

When I was VERY little, I was constantly told, primarily by good old mommy TV, that the United States was the Goodest Good Guy of the whole planet, and that everyone else was either a Bad Guy, or a nobody who needed to be bribed or forced to do whatever we said. I believed it, until I started studying the world on my own, and discovered that there is no such thing as a perfect person with no closet skeletons, or personal shortcomings.

At first, when I learned something new, I just switched sides, and joined the people who were already ranting against whoever I had just discovered were "bad." But after a fairly short time, I recognized that everyone of the loud political and social movement groups, were closing their eyes to the bad behaviors of their own leaders, while attacking the exact same things, if the other side's people were doing it.

And then, as I looked closer, I saw as well, that every group was actually made up of both "true believers" in their cause, AND hangers of of various kinds, many of which were there for dishonest and selfish reasons having NOTHING to do with solving the problem at hand.

So I gave up on declaring loyalty to one "side" or the other. Instead, I am dedicated exclusively, to recognizing and solving problems. And if one "side" has a good answer or partial answer, I will use their partial idea to start constructing an overall repair, while also including whatever the OTHER side had that seemed to be logical.

Unfortunately, that has meant that anyone who still IS dedicated to thinking in Binary ways, such as being sure that anything the Democrats want is "bad," or that anything the Republicans want is "bad," ends up declaring that I am obviously on the "other side."

I've found worst of all right now, that a lot of people are PURPOSELY insisting that everything be made into an all-or-nothing system, mainly because their real goal, is to gain personal power for themselves. And the reason they play THAT game, is because they have a long list of OTHER agenda items that they know I wont like, after I put them into power for the thing I DO like.

Most of all, I am practical. So for instance on the problem of illegal immigration, I know that something does need to be done; but I also know that most of the people who ARE here illegally, did NOT get here by sneaking through the desert. They came her entirely legally, and then failed to leave as scheduled. So the wall is a fanatically stupid thing to invest in. Not because it's "offensive," but because it simply does NOTHING to deal with the actual cause of the problem, as well as costing a boatload of money.

In the mean time, the pro-Trump fanatics attack me for failing to support EVERYTHING that Trump says. The Anti-Trump fanatics get mad, because I still support that he talked about a real problem that neither Democrats OR Republicans were willing to do ANYTHING about for the last forty years.

I gave up on the one-side-is-right-and-the-other-side-hates-America story a VERY long time ago, and I have little patience with anyone who still insists that that is reality.

ok, lot of analytical thinking and talk going on here. Let me try sum it all up if I can. Liberals will say and make all kinds of claims and arguments to keep the border open because they need the votes. The majority of Americans don't buy their BS. Liberals realize without the illegal votes, they got nothing.

Tada!

poor summarization as noone supported 'open borders' there is already a wall and border checkpoints and laws.

perhaps if there was more analysis of actual quantifiable information instead of emotionalism and name calling, there could be a solution on the horizon...

Perhaps if your "actual quantifiable information" was actually true,
but I doubt it.