WOW wouldee......said very well my friend. It is a narrow path we walk....but one done with gladness.......And the wrath for believing what someone may think as right will happen.....and then all we can do is hope all of our prayers get answered beforehand for the truly lost.....and for the seeking that they seek what is needed for their salvation...the rest will just have to see.

YUP

The truth is all revealing my friend.....

PART ONE of TWO
I felt compelled to respond as fully as I could. So I have made this reply in parts.

Even complex thoughts can be taken down to lower denominators, it is the charitable that make the effort, even if their hand had to be forced. So I will attempt to reply in full.



It’s true that human behaviors are slow. I expect most of that is due to the leaders of populations, as the great masses are normally followers, and very often are more concerned with the daily grind of their meager existence than with tempting further oppression by those leaders who are so faithfully followed. As you have said “Complaints and protests are met with sharp resistence.”

However, we are fortunate to live in a country where laws protect MOST from violent and continued retribution. Therefore, the once meager masses have an opportunity to voice their malcontent, especially when they discover they are not just a less than a minority representation of public opinion.



I’m not sure what this sentence did for your argument, it seems to have been misplaced, somewhat like a subliminal message within the text of your discourse.

But at any rate, as I have stated before, I believe in amenities, I have been known to be silent and bow my head with those who wish to pray. The body of your argument indicates that you view people and society with an extreme amount of animosity. From your statements it would seem that only a few have any values or morals, where society is concerned. From that perspective I can see why you would fear some kind of persecution.

I personally do not see people in that light. I guess it’s a matter of who you connect with and if you truely believe that the good you extend will somehow find it’s way back to you. Perhaps that’s an atheist view that some Christians would not understand.




On a personal level, I don’t find the above view to be so narrow in scope. I find that Christian fundamentalists fight for public domain, to the point of excluding all other religious beliefs.



We live in a capitalist society, money is the driving force. Without it where do you think the many millions of dollars would come from to keep the Christian Fundamentalist regime one the wealthiest lobby forces in Washington. Without that money and without that lobby do you really think their voice would be so far-reaching?

Of course, I’m following a line of logic that implies that you are Pro-Christian Fundie. If I am in error I apologize, for perhaps you were including the Christian faction in your description of all those you find lazy and ignorant and greedy.



That would only be true if the laws were actually equitable, since they are not, I can only imagine that your statement upholds the idea that equality is not necessary in any society.
That being the case, I can, once again, relate to your fear of persecution, if all things were equal.



You have put together contrary statements. If “all have the opportunity” and “none is bankrupt in that” than how can “few have the means?” Are you faulting them for their status and not being able to rise above it? Or are you supporting a previous suggestion that there simply will never be equality?



Just thought that was worth mentioning again, as I will address this later.



I don’t ,personally, fault all Christians for all the ‘ills of society”, only the fundies and only a good portion of the ills. This is not because they are Christian, it’s because they put their beliefs before the public as moral edicts to be followed, and take it to the extreme level of putting these beliefs within the structure of the law, that can only serve to keep society unequitable, which allows persecution and violence and bigotry to continue to thrive.

But I do understand your point, now that you are speaking in English. After all these generations “on top”, it’s obvious that the top would fight “the flip”.

PART TWO:



So there is finally a fence between us – and you have made clear for all, which side you are on. Christians are not “men” of the world, they are the chosen. They do not kill, rape, pillage, destroy that is for the world of those who have no Christian values.

It would indeed, be devastating for you, to have to face a ‘flip’ and be oppressed by those you hate and fear so much.



I would not slap the face of one who stood by me, to protect my rights as a person, to live my life with no less than the equality that crosses the board of all humanity, religion not withstanding. It is, sadly, the Christian faction that prevents me from being your equal, and you want me to understand this? But your arguments, thus far, exhibit only the clues that lead to the Christian fundamentalist view. I am hearing that view from you, and I will never logically be able to segregate humanity into a superior Christian faction and the avarice, greedy others who “warmonger and rape, pillage and destroy.”



It too late to bemoan the cry of the persecuted, you have clearly indicated who is “on top” and who is the “majority”.



What is this – preaching? I have not started a war – I have not even raised my hand, I am simply ‘discussing’ what separates us. I wish no blood, let the fundies keep their heads, I’m sure they serve some purpose!

The moral and ethical society you refer to is an oxymoron, if the morals are Christian but the ethical (the laws) are structured to support a diversity of culture.




The words you use, do not make your thoughts incomprehensible, it is the manner in which you go about using them. I have pointed several areas in which I believe you have misused words.
Such misuse, does make a ‘simple’ communication incomprehensible, it does not make it complex.

I will not stoop to giving you ‘CLUES’ I will be more forthright with you. You have just stated that you believe that ‘most’ would not be able to grasp your written word. If your intellect has led you to this conclusion than logic would suggest that you need to tone it down. I realize that in your mind that I am asking you to subjugate yourself to conforming to the masses – but that is the price to enter the game with subordinates. If that is too inconvenient for you, or if you can’t relate your ‘complex’ ideas to the masses, then you will continue to be the subject ‘posing as the whipping boy.’ It doesn’t have to be so – like Christians are so wont to say – it is your choice.




This is not my perception. Mine is that they simply can not stand up under scrutiny. What they have been taught, what they believe can not give them adequate logical responses to simply questions based on the reality of the world we live in. Those that try, take offense when they can not keep their illusions. I don’t blame those who don’t try – but I certainly don’t see their silence as compassion and sympathy – not when they are led like sheep to the kind of fundie beliefs that you have portrayed in this post.



If I may suggest – you might want to put “special interest” in quotes. After all it is one of those fundie quotes that permeates throughout the Christian lobby in Washington with regards to the EQUAL rights that the GLBT are attempting to gain. Of course, if it’s used by a fellow fundie, I don’t suppose there’s a chance for a plaigerism suit.

I also don’t view those who fight against inequality as those who are looking for admiration. It’s a tough road, and it leaves one open to ridicule and violence and mostly with less money than they might otherwise have had.

Believe it or not – some people have morals and ethics that are equitable and when they seek justice they seek it for all, no exceptions.



It’s good to know you have such good manners, than we can count on you to be of those to support - silent – rather than public prayer.

Nice to finally get to a point that we can agree!