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Topic: do you think people are capable of change?
Rooster35 Joined Wed 05/27/15 Posts: 1776	Fri 08/04/17 07:24 AM
my brother would have argued that who you are is who you are..it does not change who you are at 15 is who you are at 30 and who you still are at 50 meaning the basic parts of your personality remain constant I totally agree with that.

Rooster35 Joined Wed 05/27/15 Posts: 1776	Fri 08/04/17 07:27 AM
but yet it got me thinking..questioning are their certain circumstances where my core belief is that this person is incapable of change? rapist child molester someone who is violent someone who has been diagnosed with a personality disorder.. like Narcissist Besides narcissist, I don't think the others you mentioned aren't part of the personality. Those are pathological diseases. I don't believe a child molester is born that way like being selfish or vain.

TMommy Joined Fri 05/10/13 Posts: 9850	Fri 08/04/17 07:28 AM
no right or wrong answer on this one people just open to consider other points of view to do a check on my own

Piscesmoon02 Joined Wed 11/02/16 Posts: 56490	Fri 08/04/17 07:28 AM
he just came across as kind of cocky about whole thing..I asked if he had an accountability partner, a mentor in the program and he pretty much said he did not need one. I walked away..and spent the rest of the day considering my own beliefs on this matter..o Well perhaps he doesn't! I believe we can only say what it is that we need, not what others need. I used to think because something worked for me that it must for others. And I have heard the BS around the tables on how you "must" do it this way. What works for one, doesn't always work for another. I basically do what you're doing, consider my own beliefs on the matter. And if I am okay with me, truly okay and feel right with and connected to my Creator, then I think that's all that really matters. When it comes to a potential date, as much as I know about alcoholism and the potential for relapse, I would be weary of someone who appeared to be cocky or self righteous on the matter.

Unknow Joined Sat 01/11/14 Posts: 23369	Fri 08/04/17 07:30 AM Edited by Unknow on Fri 08/04/17 07:32 AM
noooo..in fact, I know the stats on success with any substance abuse group is not great.. not pointing a finger at AA being the end all just know that there are very few alcoholics that walk away from the bottle for good the ones that do? are exceptional individuals Not interested in stats, if just one persons life is changed by others believing in them then that is a good thing. Some will change some won't. This applies to your list to. Stats are only for government departments. Thing is that it's easier to walk away and find someone with no problems. People don't want to waste time trying to help others.

TMommy Joined Fri 05/10/13 Posts: 9850	Fri 08/04/17 07:31 AM
noooo..in fact, I know the stats on success with any substance abuse group is not great.. not pointing a finger at AA being the end all just know that there are very few alcoholics that walk away from the bottle for good the ones that do? are exceptional individuals Not interested in stats, if just one persons life is changed by others believing in them then that is a good thing. Some will change some won't. This applies to your list to. Stats are only for government departments. not really sure ...but you sound like this is triggering something in you.. I am not against group therapy sorry if it came across that way some will change, some won't is exactly my point

Piscesmoon02 Joined Wed 11/02/16 Posts: 56490	Fri 08/04/17 07:32 AM
It is a problem when someone has spent part of their life doing wrong, drinking, crime etc. People can change, I think it's other people who need to change their view of them! The more someone gets knocked back for trying to change the more that person will slide back down I agree! The general attitude that someone can't change can hinder a person's ability and desire to change!

TMommy Joined Fri 05/10/13 Posts: 9850	Fri 08/04/17 07:34 AM
but yet it got me thinking..questioning are their certain circumstances where my core belief is that this person is incapable of change? rapist child molester someone who is violent someone who has been diagnosed with a personality disorder.. like Narcissist Besides narcissist, I don't think the others you mentioned aren't part of the personality. Those are pathological diseases. I don't believe a child molester is born that way like being selfish or vain. hmmm..what then constiutes pathological?

Unknow Joined Sat 01/11/14 Posts: 23369	Fri 08/04/17 07:37 AM
Don't apologise tommy, It's not triggered anything. .... hang on that's better Yes it works for some. I don't like stats, sorry. they generalise people. I think there should be more focus on the successes than the failures. But I can see where you're coming from with the guy. To easy to get hurt.

Unknow Joined Sat 01/11/14 Posts: 23369	Fri 08/04/17 07:38 AM
It is a problem when someone has spent part of their life doing wrong, drinking, crime etc. People can change, I think it's other people who need to change their view of them! The more someone gets knocked back for trying to change the more that person will slide back down I agree! The general attitude that someone can't change can hinder a person's ability and desire to change! Yes,

Piscesmoon02 Joined Wed 11/02/16 Posts: 56490	Fri 08/04/17 07:39 AM Edited by Piscesmoon02 on Fri 08/04/17 07:42 AM
but yet it got me thinking..questioning are their certain circumstances where my core belief is that this person is incapable of change? rapist child molester someone who is violent someone who has been diagnosed with a personality disorder.. like Narcissist Besides narcissist, I don't think the others you mentioned aren't part of the personality. Those are pathological diseases. I don't believe a child molester is born that way like being selfish or vain. I agree rooster. TMommy, I think with those you mentioned above, it could be possible for change to happen. However, I feel it takes a lot of therapy and a continued maintenance program to not fall back into behaviors that don't produce a quality of life for them. Edited in....Or for those around them or their next victim.

TMommy Joined Fri 05/10/13 Posts: 9850	Fri 08/04/17 07:41 AM Edited by TMommy on Fri 08/04/17 07:41 AM
say you start drinking as a teenager your folks try to get you to quit do an intervention say you go to a in house treatment program for youth you come out of it you are good for awhile stuff happens in your life you turn to booze once again as a means of coping a girlfriend, co worker, boss, family member talks you into rehab again it sticks for awhile you backslide you repeat this pattern for a good portion of your life now family members, significant others, friends have formed an opinion on you and your ability to change

Unknow Joined Sat 01/11/14 Posts: 23369	Fri 08/04/17 07:41 AM
Yes, the list is a bit more difficult. someone who drinks is more likely to have the support of people where as anyone in your list is I'm sure going to find it hard to find anyone with sympathy.

TMommy Joined Fri 05/10/13 Posts: 9850	Fri 08/04/17 07:43 AM
how important is it to have a support system?

Unknow Joined Sat 01/11/14 Posts: 23369	Fri 08/04/17 07:43 AM
say you start drinking as a teenager your folks try to get you to quit do an intervention say you go to a in house treatment program for youth you come out of it you are good for awhile stuff happens in your life you turn to booze once again as a means of coping a girlfriend, co worker, boss, family member talks you into rehab again it sticks for awhile you backslide you repeat this pattern for a good portion of your life now family members, significant others, friends have formed an opinion on you and your ability to change True. But I'd say in this case he has more underlying problems.

Unknow Joined Sat 01/11/14 Posts: 23369	Fri 08/04/17 07:46 AM
how important is it to have a support system? I think it's very important. We have a good one in the UK (depending on the political party you ask ) But it's really over stretched. A case of a teenager at the moment, suicidal, and the local authority has said they can't help for 6 months!

TMommy Joined Fri 05/10/13 Posts: 9850	Fri 08/04/17 07:49 AM
as I said..this is mostly for me to do a checks/balances on what it is I really believe..hold myself up to the light so to speak something I do from time to time

Piscesmoon02 Joined Wed 11/02/16 Posts: 56490	Fri 08/04/17 07:49 AM
say you start drinking as a teenager your folks try to get you to quit do an intervention say you go to a in house treatment program for youth you come out of it you are good for awhile stuff happens in your life you turn to booze once again as a means of coping a girlfriend, co worker, boss, family member talks you into rehab again it sticks for awhile you backslide you repeat this pattern for a good portion of your life now family members, significant others, friends have formed an opinion on you and your ability to change I understand what you're saying, and have seen this happen many times. Part of the dilemma is that Alcoholism is difficult for others to see as a disease that may or may not be in remission. Understandably so because this particularly disease causes so much discord in everyone's lives because of the behaviors that go with it. When someone has a different type of disease, like cancer....we feel bad for them if it goes out of remission. And alcoholic goes out of remission, the general attitude is, "Oh God, here we go again!" Not fair, but reality.

Piscesmoon02 Joined Wed 11/02/16 Posts: 56490	Fri 08/04/17 07:53 AM
how important is it to have a support system? Again, an individual thing. Very important for some, not so important or necessary for others. I wouldn't have survived had I not had a support system...I honestly believe that.

TMommy Joined Fri 05/10/13 Posts: 9850	Fri 08/04/17 07:57 AM Edited by TMommy on Fri 08/04/17 07:58 AM
say you start drinking as a teenager your folks try to get you to quit do an intervention say you go to a in house treatment program for youth you come out of it you are good for awhile stuff happens in your life you turn to booze once again as a means of coping a girlfriend, co worker, boss, family member talks you into rehab again it sticks for awhile you backslide you repeat this pattern for a good portion of your life now family members, significant others, friends have formed an opinion on you and your ability to change I understand what you're saying, and have seen this happen many times. Part of the dilemma is that Alcoholism is difficult for others to see as a disease that may or may not be in remission. Understandably so because this particularly disease causes so much discord in everyone's lives because of the behaviors that go with it. When someone has a different type of disease, like cancer....we feel bad for them if it goes out of remission. And alcoholic goes out of remission, the general attitude is, "Oh God, here we go again!" Not fair, but reality. do you think the difference is how most actually view it? some see it not as a disease but a matter of will power?