Do you leave things out? Do you feel that omission is betrayal in
starting a relationship? Or during a relationship?

It can be a betrayal if in a relationship.
If just starting to date. I think not, because the people have to get acquainted first, before some of the not so great about ourselves comes to light.

I never tell them on a first date that I'm a secret cross dresser, I usually spit that out on the 2nd.

Of course, there are millions of moments and events in our lives over a lifetime, there is no way to include EVERYTHING in any one moment

so we pick what to share and at what point,,,its normal

I do not consider it betrayal unless a relationship is becoming intimate and the information is significant to the sexual compatibility ,,,(like a man really being female or a woman really being male, or being bisexual,or having an std)

or there is an engagement/proposal and the information is significant to marital status (married before, has kids,,,etc)

otherwise,, omission is really not even a thing to me,, people share what they share at a time when they are comfortable

It can be, but it depends on a lot of details. Certainly, omitting to mention that you are already married, to someone who you are pretending to pursue as a mate, is certainly betrayal on a massive scale. In other words, it depends on what is omitted and why.

It's very common to refrain from admitting or spelling out your less than ideal qualities at first, after all. And there are lots of little things which one person thinks ought to go unmentioned, because they don't think of them as important, while the other might consider them fundamentally and fanatically imperative to know.

I guess what I'd go with, is that if YOU think that your omission is an attempt to fool the other person, then yes, it's a betrayal.

I think its best to divulge certain information on a "need to know" basis..until a firm relationship has been established... another phrase comes to mind... 'easier to ask for forgiveness, than to ask for permission'..

depends on what you are omtting does it not?

it is definitely this one:

Lying by omission, otherwise known as exclusionary detailing, is lying by either omitting certain facts or by failing to correct a misconception

If there is a moral obligation to disclose something, evidenced by feelings of remorse, guilt, insecurity, and fear for not disclosing it, then I think it's justified to feel a sense of "betrayal" if it's omitted, or not disclosed when relevant.


Sometimes.
The difficulty I have is knowing when it's relevant to disclose.

Personally, I try really hard to avoid disclosing things as a reaction to something unrelated, to avoid "confessionals" for some other ulterior motive.

Like when things feel awkward, or feeling/noticing they're starting to withdraw, avoiding "confessing" something highly personal as a means to try and force intimacy, or to make up for a lack of communication in other areas.


I don't know what you consider "starting a relationship" to mean.

I see a relationship "starting" as soon as you say hello to someone (face to face).
Other people seem to recognize a relationship "starting" after you've dated for a while, gotten to some subjective point of "getting to know" someone, then having some kind of "the talk," and mutually verbally agreeing to define the start of a relationship. Like a rite of passage ceremony or ritual.

For me "omission" being a betrayal is highly dependent upon expectations, consequences. "I'm sleeping with my ex and dating you and I think I'm pregnant," is a betrayal. "I am an alcoholic, I didn't want to tell you before," is not a betrayal. "I'm an alcoholic, that's why I was lying to you about medication keeping me from drinking," is a betrayal.
"I have AIDS, and I didn't want to tell you until after we had sex so we could bond and you might not dump me," is a betrayal.


People naturally build expectations based on consistent behavior.
The longer the relationship, the more interaction, the more consistent the behavior, the stronger the expectations.

People figure out if omitting something is going to cause problems, cause dissonance in expectations. This leads to feelings of guilt, insecurity, fear of known consequences, remorse.

If you're engaged in a relationship, you naturally learn to communicate.
You inherently begin to "know" when you "should" disclose things, know what you shouldn't be omitting.

If you know you shouldn't be omitting something, yet still do it, then it is a "betrayal."

There are different levels of "betrayal" and there are different degrees or levels of response, ranging from not really giving a crap to immediately dumping them, to suing them, depending on their intended goal for omitting something.

Depends what it is...
Do I need to know how many times Panch dated before me? NOPE
Do I need to know if there is any little Panch's running around? YEP!

1) I was driving down the road today and I was feeling anxious for some reason
2) I was driving down the road today and I heard the car make a strange sound and it made me feel anxious.
3) I was driving down the road today and a uy started yelling at me from the corner so I gave him the finger This guy lost it and ran towards the car, so to protect myself I ran him over and it made strange sounds under the car and I am feeling very anxious about it now.

Same story!
Regarding omission.... any lies in there?

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Our legal system is based on it! Relationship doesn't match the same requirements?

Omission is the same as lying IMO

If there isn't open and honest communication then what are you trying to protect?

that is a great question but not necessarily the same issue funkyjunkie and btw,,, long time no see,


there is merely not being able to include every detail of yourself and your past in any given interaction

there is discerning when, during the process of building a relationship, certain information is relevant or important enough to share

and then there is making an effort to hide what is relevant to building a relationship, like marital status or anatomy,e tc,

merely not sharing everything all at once is not by itself an indication of any intent to deceive...

Yep! i prefer open and honest. I might not like the truth but respect the person for telling the truth

I agree. However if one becomes aware of an issue that might not sit well with your partner. You should endeavour to broach the subject as early as comfortably convenient.

Nice of you to have noticed my absence Msharmony. I'm still in recovery from a bout of flu and haven't felt able to communicate lately. I hope you're well

you are hard to miss,,,,and wb

Women have attempted to share FAR TOO MUCH with me in the early stages of dating. It was often a large part of the reason we never made to the middle or later stages.

Everyone has their stories and in my opinion that is how your crap is best related, anecdotally.

Obviously, certain things need to be brought up immediately and others sooner rather than later, but for god's sake don't hit me all at once with your life story. Ease me into it...

It must be my shiny head?

Deception for me is withholding any details which could heavily offend the other person's value system, threaten their physical welfare or heavily impact one's future in the relationship .

That would include details like children with previous partners, being presently married ( being separated is still being married to me), STDS or chronic illnesses, being unemployed , impotence etc