As a child of the 1950s I actually met and knew many people who had been born in the 1800s.

Looking back that surprises me, not least because essentially I asked them nothing! These were people who walked along highways before any motor vehicle ever appeared. Try to imagine such a thing. Amazing! And no film records of their everyday lives exist.

I had a great grandfather who would have known people possibly born as early as 1770. I also asked him nothing except to race me across a meadow. Hardly fair as I was four and he at least eighty four!

My life over again, and with an older head on my shoulders, my questions would have been endless. Not least about romance and courtship. I would not have been surprised to hear (assuming that it was the case) that the majority of both men and women in earlier days were sexual virgins.

My grandmother once told me how in the early 1900s local singles would put on their Sunday best clothes and effectively parade themselves along a couple of roads in town - the men walking on one side of the road and the women on the other side, and if a particular lady caught a gentleman's eye possibly he might cross the road and attempt to strike up a conversation.

Older and wiser I appreciate that almost everything in life, indeed in history, does not progress as straight line positive evolution. Life very often goes in circles, and of course life includes everything including both morality and behaviour.

Well within my memory homosexuality was then illegal as was abortion. Recent times, during my own adult experience, have radically changed both their moral and romantic hue. As morals have had their goal posts moved to a different pitch located many miles away likewise sexual behaviour has changed to match the times.

What then has changed so radically?

There have always been significant numbers of sexually liberated individuals in the West. Those who believe that anything goes. But nevertheless very much in a minority.

Nowadays the numbers of such individuals have massively swelled, so much so that for men at least it has caused a great deal of confusion as to how to treat women during the ritual of courtship.

Very recently I read a female professional Relationship Counsellor advising men how to treat women on dates and not simply to see them as sexual objects. Sounds good, save only that vast numbers of females nowadays see men as exactly that!

Essentially we still have large numbers of ladies believing in old fashioned romance, and likewise a large number who want none of it. How to tell them apart?

Any lady arriving on a first date wearing a ribboned bonnet and carrying a bunch of posies should be assumed to be a lady of high moral virtue. Conversely one appearing in a black leather onesie and carrying a bull whip....well work it out.

So hopefully identification should be easy.

Confused males? I don't know of any.

Trial and error.

Me neither. Either they are in the cage or going back in the cage soon.
Nothing confusing about that. They know the deal.

Too be honest. This ^^ is too long.
It is real simple. ASK a woman what she wants & needs. DON'T guess or characterize them or do an analysis.

This a great thread Wackford... Very thought provoking ...

If you read the most popular topics at mingles, you will find that the common denominator tying all these threads together is confusion, not just by men but by women as well .

The women often are accusing the men of being lying , abusive, cheating sexual vultures, and the men accusing the women of being cheating exploitive gold diggers, or of being the good girl who is attracted to bad treatment,

I think the secret of finding someone with your values, is taking the time to get to know them.

You have to observe the way that they respond to you and your gestures overtime , and how they treat strangers, and even their family and over time.

You also have to look at the way they deal with stress and disappointments.

In other words, to clear up confusion, you don't focus on what they say.

True clarity lies in the consistency of WHAT THEY DO .

And even if you decide to assess her by what she says , you may want to ask yourself...What are most of her questions/her interest centred around? Is it mainly bout sex, your money or your soul?

if you are talking about traditional gender roles


that women had tended to change over time as they take on more of what used to be 'traditional' men kind of responsibilities


I would say that in this country ( USA) there is truth to that

not too many housewives and stay at home mothers anymore
in fact, I used to make the joke that I could run down the street screaming and pulling my hair out and no one would hear me for they were all at work


as women have taken on more roles in life out of choice or necessity they have had to 'toughen up' so to speak in many ways

to become very independent, competent, capable


drive their own cars, pay their own bills, have their own homes and careers


does this make them more intimidating to men?


mmmmm...some perhaps

I think you have conflated a bunch of stuff there, Wackford.

In particular, you've done as I've seen a number of people have, and somehow managed to mix the fact that some people now feel comfortable acknowledging their homosexuality, with how some entirely different males struggle to interact with females.

As though making it legal for one person to be who they already were, somehow causes another person to forget who they are.

I suggest another explanation: i.e., that people have NOT fundamentally changed at all over the centuries. Instead, what has changed lately, is the range of cover stories and excuses that people come up with to pretend that whatever nonsense they do, is someone else's fault.

the pendulum swings back and forth

that is history

between order which is attempted by conformity


to chaos which ends up being produced by the notion that conformity is mostly bad and individualism is mostly good


we have struggled as humans to find the healthy balance as long as I have been alive, and longer no doubt

I found her!




Wait. What were we talking about again?

Well said Peggy.
Time spent getting to know someone will reveal their character. That should rule out confusion.
Either you are drawn closer into intimacy with each other, or not, depending on the many variables of attraction.

I'd be VERY confused. ...that is of IF viewed courtship as a 'ritual' implying that there is very SPECIFIC steps that I HAD to follow during the process. ..rituals are generally very rigid allowing for little to no interpretation of thr steps that one MUST follow and in what order.

Dating isn't a ritual, there is no magic plan or steps that guarantee you are 'getting it right' it's different with every woman,

even if you 'identify' a woman as 'loose' treating her like that's what you think she is....you'll have to keep looking,

likewise if you identify a women as a prude if you treat her like that's what you think she is...you'll have to keep looking.

Treat every women, the way YOU are COMFORTABLE treating them, hopefully that means with some level of respect..but who knows maybe you're a d!ck...but that's okay.

dating is a numbers game, go on a few, treat them all the same, eventually one will 'click' and you'll have 'chemistry' and nest of all...it will be with tbe REAL you.

If you're highly sexual and you change the way you are for a bonnet girl, it isn't going to last, you'll keep hoping she changes, you'll resent her, you'll blame her for your unhappiness and whine that shes 'not this, or not that. ..' but she was never those things to begin with. ..so just be yourself and find the woman who is what you want...numbers man

I still want to know just who these alleged "confused males" are, because I have never met one.

Only time I am ever confused is when I go to a new restaurant and have to choose from so many delicious options. Sexually? Well....gosh I love those boobs and butts on women.

True, but don't discount the art of deception.

Hhhaaa...
They must be hasbeen entertainers,
boycotting entire states for the LGBT bathroom agenda, to get their name in the press.

what the hell is a bonnet girl?

Confused Men?

If you want to see courtship as challenging then it will be a challenge.

I prefer to look at it as something nice and wonderful and usually it is.

Amish, Dunkard, or Mennonite woman.

Well said..

I think for me I just take each person as they come. And see what happens.