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Topic: knowing your rights when dealing with police
Ladywind7's photo
Wed 09/09/15 10:13 PM
Mysterious, undercover policeman?
:tongue:

Goofball73's photo
Wed 09/09/15 11:13 PM
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Ladywind7's photo
Wed 09/09/15 11:20 PM

germanchoclate1981's photo
Thu 09/10/15 01:03 AM



Case by case scenario...Wariness should not turn into paranoia...

Case by case is the root of this problem. Name one case where failure to signal a lane change properly for someone who has not committed any other crime and has no outstanding warrants ends with them being jailed. Other than the Sandra Bland case. Any?
We saw the officer use excessive force, threaten to "light her up" with his tazer then openly lie to his supervisor about " trying to deescalate her but she just wasn't going for it".
The actions of that bad cop wasn't paranoia, it was criminal.
The "missed" cell check and her subsequent hanging... She failed to signal properly, she didn't have a trunk full of illegal guns, kilos of cocaine, dead bodies, or anything. She failed to signal properly. Minor moving violation, they don't try that in criminal court.




I was meaning the public should be wary...for those exact reasons you have pointed out.
Not all police are whack jobs.

You are right about that Lady. Not all cops are bad but when there is a situation like the 11 shootings in 11 days on I-10 people get nervous. Once a cop pulls you over or they show up where you are you can't ask for one with a better window side manner. Even when you are respectful, which I have always been, and they give you attitude or a ticket for something you didn't do, you're stuck with it. Paying a $130 ticket having to explain why you have to miss work is one thing and being beaten to death or shot in the face is another.

A wounded victim of a car crash walking towards the police for help and being shot 10 times after reacting naturally to the laser sights and probes of a tazer should NEVER happen. In the
case that it did happen, $50,000 bond was made, it resulted in mistrial and the State AG refused to try the officer again because he believes the result would be the same? Charlotte-Mecklenburg Officer Randall Kerrick, NC Attorney General Rory Cooper. The victim walked to a nearby house injured asking for help after his car was totaled. The victim was guilty of being injured and needing medical attention (while black).



adj4u's photo
Fri 09/11/15 05:17 PM
Any time an officer says you can not leave you are being detained (under arrest),,,,, dont believe it try leaving

adj4u's photo
Fri 09/11/15 05:20 PM
Search ,,,,,, what the police dont want you to know, ,,,,,,, very interesting video

IgorFrankensteen's photo
Sat 09/12/15 11:00 AM
There's no single simple answer to problems like these. More than anything else, nothing significant will be accomplished until that salient fact is recognized and accepted.

Some police ARE corrupt. Some ARE horribly untrained. Some ARE entirely innocent and just doing their jobs.

Knowing your rights is part of it. Knowing THEIR rights and their directives and training is part of it. Knowing when NOT to pitch a fuss is part of it. Paying enough that you get quality people is a BIG part of it, which too many people fail to appreciate. Electing people who are more than puppets for the rich is part of it. Electing people who actually want to improve things, instead of just wanting to better hide the problems is part of it.

And a lot more.

Lpdon's photo
Sat 09/12/15 11:39 AM

When armed with knowledge of the law AND the ability to discern WHEN and HOW to deploy that knowledge against an officer who’s running rough shod over your rights - is AWESOME. Getting it on video so that others can learn from and share that experience is PRICELESS!

Why is this important? Rights are the barrier that separates you from a cage. And just like an unused muscle, your rights are subject to the most extreme forms of atrophy. Your failure to exercise your rights inevitably leads to the loss of those rights and, at times, the looming reality of the most unspeakable bondage.

So, what if you were standing on a public side walk video recording and two armed gang members approach you, ask you to identify yourself, start assaulting you when you don’t comply with their request, tie you up, throw you in the back of their car and transport you to a cage where they keep you until they’re ready to let you out? And while you’re sitting in that cage, they call some of their buddies who steal your car and take it to their property. Would their actions be right or wrong? Would it matter of the two thugs weren’t Crips or Bloods, but belonged the largest, most powerful, most organized gang in the neighborhood called the state police?

With virtually unlimited funds, these badged enforcers have the resources and power to make your life a living nightmare.
Under normal circumstances, when someone assaults you, you can fight back to protect yourself or your loved ones. But when officers harass or attack you, your retaliation will certainly bring the wrath and full force of the state upon your head, complete with reinforcements, helicopters in the air, dogs on the ground and you either behind bars or taking up the next cabinet space in the local morgue. Unfortunately, bad cops have the power to harm you and your family, steal your property, ruin your public record, imprison you for life and financially bankrupt you.

So what do you do? Do you roll over and just let them get away with their disregard for justice? Or do you stand up for principle and hold these costumed thugs accountable? Isn’t it at this point that Jefferson’s assertion springs to life? “when in justice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.”
It’s really the duty of the people to rid themselves of their ignorance and stand on the high ground of useful knowledge. Knowledge is power and a plethora of examples should tell you that bad cops love to take advantage of those who don’t possess that power.
First, you need to know that you have the right to film any public servant, at any time in any public place, for any reason. Glick vs. Cuniffe established this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glik_v._Cunniffe

Here’s the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=537&v=lmjfRUBacF0

And even if it didn’t the First Amendment and Fourth Amendments of the Bill of Rights firmly establishes it.
And even if that didn’t exist, the law of common sense trumps it all. If you encounter a public servant, then any member of the public has a right to record any servant who claims to serve them.
Next, unless you’re operating a motor vehicle or you’re flying a commercial airline and except in these states you NEVER have to provide an ID to anyone upon request. Even in these stop and identify states, the request must accompany the officer’s “reasonable suspicion” that you have committed, are committing or will commit a crime. And this suspicion must be specifically articulated. If they can articulate why they reasonably suspect you, they can, according to the courts, legally detain you.
A way to quickly test this is by asking the officer, “am I being detained, or am I free to go?” If he says you’re not being detained…take that opportunity to walk away. If he says he is detaining you, ask him to specifically articulate his reasonable suspicion that you have committed a crime.
If you’re detained, you’ll have to decide if withholding your identity is worth the possibility of arrest or a prolonged detention.


Honestly after dealing with Law Enforcement on a regular basis and knowing their interview tricks, if I ever got jammed up the only thing out of my mouth would be Attorney please.


Lpdon's photo
Sat 09/12/15 11:40 AM

Considering the current situation...those rights wouldn't matter coz you would most probably be shot anyway ohwell


Not if you don't do anything stupid.

Lpdon's photo
Sat 09/12/15 11:46 AM


Case by case scenario...Wariness should not turn into paranoia...

Case by case is the root of this problem. Name one case where failure to signal a lane change properly for someone who has not committed any other crime and has no outstanding warrants ends with them being jailed. Other than the Sandra Bland case. Any?
We saw the officer use excessive force, threaten to "light her up" with his tazer then openly lie to his supervisor about " trying to deescalate her but she just wasn't going for it".
The actions of that bad cop wasn't paranoia, it was criminal.
The "missed" cell check and her subsequent hanging... She failed to signal properly, she didn't have a trunk full of illegal guns, kilos of cocaine, dead bodies, or anything. She failed to signal properly. Minor moving violation, they don't try that in criminal court.





Actually they do try that in criminal court. It is a criminal offense, a petty one but still a criminal offense and a misdemeanor usually handled at the Justice Court level. The problem with the Bland case was she was uncooperative.

If you get pulled over and don't agree with it just give the officer your license, insurance and registration and tell him\her respectfully conversation over, give me a ticket or let me go and sort it out in court. No need in getting confrontational with the officer that just makes things worse and makes you look guilty when it does go to court and if you by chance do pull that with a dirty cop, well your screwed.

Lpdon's photo
Sat 09/12/15 11:54 AM


Case by case scenario...Wariness should not turn into paranoia...

Case by case is the root of this problem. Name one case where failure to signal a lane change properly for someone who has not committed any other crime and has no outstanding warrants ends with them being jailed. Other than the Sandra Bland case. Any?
We saw the officer use excessive force, threaten to "light her up" with his tazer then openly lie to his supervisor about " trying to deescalate her but she just wasn't going for it".
The actions of that bad cop wasn't paranoia, it was criminal.
The "missed" cell check and her subsequent hanging... She failed to signal properly, she didn't have a trunk full of illegal guns, kilos of cocaine, dead bodies, or anything. She failed to signal properly. Minor moving violation, they don't try that in criminal court.





Besides if your not a complete a$$ to the officer on a situation like that they usually just let you go with a warning or fix it ticket.

BTW do you know why they take something like a broken tail light or failing to use a turn signal so seriously? It may surprise you, I just learned this recently myself. If your kidnapped your usually placed in the back of a car, trunk etc. Your first instincts after escaping are to kick out a tail light or disable it some how.

Have you ever been pulled over for a tail light infraction or an indicator? If you ever do, watch what the officer does first. He will check your tail light out and run his hands across the trunk.

Lpdon's photo
Sat 09/12/15 11:57 AM




Case by case scenario...Wariness should not turn into paranoia...

Case by case is the root of this problem. Name one case where failure to signal a lane change properly for someone who has not committed any other crime and has no outstanding warrants ends with them being jailed. Other than the Sandra Bland case. Any?
We saw the officer use excessive force, threaten to "light her up" with his tazer then openly lie to his supervisor about " trying to deescalate her but she just wasn't going for it".
The actions of that bad cop wasn't paranoia, it was criminal.
The "missed" cell check and her subsequent hanging... She failed to signal properly, she didn't have a trunk full of illegal guns, kilos of cocaine, dead bodies, or anything. She failed to signal properly. Minor moving violation, they don't try that in criminal court.




I was meaning the public should be wary...for those exact reasons you have pointed out.
Not all police are whack jobs.

You are right about that Lady. Not all cops are bad but when there is a situation like the 11 shootings in 11 days on I-10 people get nervous. Once a cop pulls you over or they show up where you are you can't ask for one with a better window side manner. Even when you are respectful, which I have always been, and they give you attitude or a ticket for something you didn't do, you're stuck with it. Paying a $130 ticket having to explain why you have to miss work is one thing and being beaten to death or shot in the face is another.

A wounded victim of a car crash walking towards the police for help and being shot 10 times after reacting naturally to the laser sights and probes of a tazer should NEVER happen. In the
case that it did happen, $50,000 bond was made, it resulted in mistrial and the State AG refused to try the officer again because he believes the result would be the same? Charlotte-Mecklenburg Officer Randall Kerrick, NC Attorney General Rory Cooper. The victim walked to a nearby house injured asking for help after his car was totaled. The victim was guilty of being injured and needing medical attention (while black).





Then fight the ticket in court.

As for the Long Distance Serial Killer that they are dealing with on the I-10, if I were there and got pulled over I would keep my hands on my steering wheel at all times unless directed to get something. It puts the office at ease and your more likely to get out of a ticket.

Lpdon's photo
Sat 09/12/15 11:58 AM

Any time an officer says you can not leave you are being detained (under arrest),,,,, dont believe it try leaving


I have seen it done and they get hit with resisting arrest.

msharmony's photo
Sat 09/12/15 12:15 PM
rights can vary between states, its good to review the information for your statebar page,,,,for my homestate ohio

https://www.ohiobar.org/ForPublic/Resources/LawFactsPamphlets/Pages/LawFactsPamphlet-21.aspx

Lpdon's photo
Sat 09/12/15 07:10 PM
Also if your in the custody of a Security Officer, Law Enforcement Agent, Bounty Hunter, Private Investigator(not employed by any law enforcement agency) and there is a Law Enforcement Officer in the room say doing his paperwork and you haven't been mirandized, everything the 3rd party asks you Law Enforcement can use against you even if you haven't been mirandized as long as the Officer didn't tell the 3rd party what to ask.

It's a pretty common trick PI's and LP Agents use to get a Misdemeanor into a Felony. As long as it's not solicited by Law Enforcement it's admissible and any good Agent knows this and knows to ask questions as soon as the Officer walks in before he mirandizes the suspect. It's great to see the suspects face when he then choses not to talk to the Officer and the Officer then tell the Subject that's ok, I heard you tell Mr. LP Agent over there so that's Burglary laugh

germanchoclate1981's photo
Sun 09/13/15 12:54 AM



Case by case scenario...Wariness should not turn into paranoia...

Case by case is the root of this problem. Name one case where failure to signal a lane change properly for someone who has not committed any other crime and has no outstanding warrants ends with them being jailed. Other than the Sandra Bland case. Any?
We saw the officer use excessive force, threaten to "light her up" with his tazer then openly lie to his supervisor about " trying to deescalate her but she just wasn't going for it".
The actions of that bad cop wasn't paranoia, it was criminal.
The "missed" cell check and her subsequent hanging... She failed to signal properly, she didn't have a trunk full of illegal guns, kilos of cocaine, dead bodies, or anything. She failed to signal properly. Minor moving violation, they don't try that in criminal court.





The problem with the Bland case was she was uncooperative.


If you get pulled over and don't agree with it just give the officer your license, insurance and registration and tell him\her respectfully conversation over, give me a ticket or let me go and sort it out in court. No need in getting confrontational with the officer that just makes things worse and makes you look guilty when it does go to court and if you by chance do pull that with a dirty cop, well your screwed.


Uncooperative... That's, off. This is the problem with this case. She pulled over. She stopped. She rolled her window down. Those are 3 conscious choices she made to comply with the officer.
I now know about a judicial review in some States at least that allow the officer to remove the driver from the car if either's life is in danger, at the officers discretion. His life wasn't in danger. She wasn't exactly Mary poppins, but all my life I've been told to stay inside the car and keep my hands where they can be seen. Many officers have told me "for my safety and yours, stay inside the car unless I tell you otherwise." He was clearly annoyed by her, but that's not a reason to yank a WOMAN out of a car or threaten a WOMAN with a tazer when she fears for her safety and possibly her life. You stay in the car so the officer knows you're not trying to push him into oncoming traffic, or if the person has been drinking they don't step out into traffic themselves. He also called his supervisor and gave them a fabricated story of him trying to deescalate the situation where he is actually the aggressor. She (depending on the State) affirmed a defense. She didn't jump out of the car and attack him. She didn't wrestle him to the ground, she didn't threaten him. That's the problem. Had she reached under the seat or pulled out a weapon of some kind that's a different situation. Had she pulled him in or hit him with the door, or otherwise initiated physicality, ok. If she was a felon or the car was stolen, different thing.

I understand what you're saying but I can tell you if anybody says that here who isn't white they'll be behind bars. And how many tickets should one have to pay when they have done nothing wrong? Even if the ticket is thrown out you have to pay court cost. Usually it isn't. If you hire a lawyer you have to pay them, the ticket and court cost if the judge doesn't care. Rarely are the actions of the officer or the da questioned. We pay taxes to take care of the roads, pay the police, the public servants, judges... We pay for a DL. We Pay insurance for ourselves and others, we pay IF we break traffic laws, we pay MORE to say we DIDN'T break traffic laws, we pay MORE to hire a lawyer, and we still pay MORE if we are found NOT GUILTY which only happens if you hire a very expensive lawyer. Speeders still speed. Drunks still hit and kill people.


Lpdon's photo
Sun 09/13/15 01:19 AM




Case by case scenario...Wariness should not turn into paranoia...

Case by case is the root of this problem. Name one case where failure to signal a lane change properly for someone who has not committed any other crime and has no outstanding warrants ends with them being jailed. Other than the Sandra Bland case. Any?
We saw the officer use excessive force, threaten to "light her up" with his tazer then openly lie to his supervisor about " trying to deescalate her but she just wasn't going for it".
The actions of that bad cop wasn't paranoia, it was criminal.
The "missed" cell check and her subsequent hanging... She failed to signal properly, she didn't have a trunk full of illegal guns, kilos of cocaine, dead bodies, or anything. She failed to signal properly. Minor moving violation, they don't try that in criminal court.





The problem with the Bland case was she was uncooperative.


If you get pulled over and don't agree with it just give the officer your license, insurance and registration and tell him\her respectfully conversation over, give me a ticket or let me go and sort it out in court. No need in getting confrontational with the officer that just makes things worse and makes you look guilty when it does go to court and if you by chance do pull that with a dirty cop, well your screwed.


Uncooperative... That's, off. This is the problem with this case. She pulled over. She stopped. She rolled her window down. Those are 3 conscious choices she made to comply with the officer.
I now know about a judicial review in some States at least that allow the officer to remove the driver from the car if either's life is in danger, at the officers discretion. His life wasn't in danger. She wasn't exactly Mary poppins, but all my life I've been told to stay inside the car and keep my hands where they can be seen. Many officers have told me "for my safety and yours, stay inside the car unless I tell you otherwise." He was clearly annoyed by her, but that's not a reason to yank a WOMAN out of a car or threaten a WOMAN with a tazer when she fears for her safety and possibly her life. You stay in the car so the officer knows you're not trying to push him into oncoming traffic, or if the person has been drinking they don't step out into traffic themselves. He also called his supervisor and gave them a fabricated story of him trying to deescalate the situation where he is actually the aggressor. She (depending on the State) affirmed a defense. She didn't jump out of the car and attack him. She didn't wrestle him to the ground, she didn't threaten him. That's the problem. Had she reached under the seat or pulled out a weapon of some kind that's a different situation. Had she pulled him in or hit him with the door, or otherwise initiated physicality, ok. If she was a felon or the car was stolen, different thing.

I understand what you're saying but I can tell you if anybody says that here who isn't white they'll be behind bars. And how many tickets should one have to pay when they have done nothing wrong? Even if the ticket is thrown out you have to pay court cost. Usually it isn't. If you hire a lawyer you have to pay them, the ticket and court cost if the judge doesn't care. Rarely are the actions of the officer or the da questioned. We pay taxes to take care of the roads, pay the police, the public servants, judges... We pay for a DL. We Pay insurance for ourselves and others, we pay IF we break traffic laws, we pay MORE to say we DIDN'T break traffic laws, we pay MORE to hire a lawyer, and we still pay MORE if we are found NOT GUILTY which only happens if you hire a very expensive lawyer. Speeders still speed. Drunks still hit and kill people.




Oh you mean if she did all the things that Thug Michael Brown did?

Lpdon's photo
Sun 09/13/15 01:22 AM




Case by case scenario...Wariness should not turn into paranoia...

Case by case is the root of this problem. Name one case where failure to signal a lane change properly for someone who has not committed any other crime and has no outstanding warrants ends with them being jailed. Other than the Sandra Bland case. Any?
We saw the officer use excessive force, threaten to "light her up" with his tazer then openly lie to his supervisor about " trying to deescalate her but she just wasn't going for it".
The actions of that bad cop wasn't paranoia, it was criminal.
The "missed" cell check and her subsequent hanging... She failed to signal properly, she didn't have a trunk full of illegal guns, kilos of cocaine, dead bodies, or anything. She failed to signal properly. Minor moving violation, they don't try that in criminal court.





The problem with the Bland case was she was uncooperative.


If you get pulled over and don't agree with it just give the officer your license, insurance and registration and tell him\her respectfully conversation over, give me a ticket or let me go and sort it out in court. No need in getting confrontational with the officer that just makes things worse and makes you look guilty when it does go to court and if you by chance do pull that with a dirty cop, well your screwed.


Uncooperative... That's, off. This is the problem with this case. She pulled over. She stopped. She rolled her window down. Those are 3 conscious choices she made to comply with the officer.
I now know about a judicial review in some States at least that allow the officer to remove the driver from the car if either's life is in danger, at the officers discretion. His life wasn't in danger. She wasn't exactly Mary poppins, but all my life I've been told to stay inside the car and keep my hands where they can be seen. Many officers have told me "for my safety and yours, stay inside the car unless I tell you otherwise." He was clearly annoyed by her, but that's not a reason to yank a WOMAN out of a car or threaten a WOMAN with a tazer when she fears for her safety and possibly her life. You stay in the car so the officer knows you're not trying to push him into oncoming traffic, or if the person has been drinking they don't step out into traffic themselves. He also called his supervisor and gave them a fabricated story of him trying to deescalate the situation where he is actually the aggressor. She (depending on the State) affirmed a defense. She didn't jump out of the car and attack him. She didn't wrestle him to the ground, she didn't threaten him. That's the problem. Had she reached under the seat or pulled out a weapon of some kind that's a different situation. Had she pulled him in or hit him with the door, or otherwise initiated physicality, ok. If she was a felon or the car was stolen, different thing.

I understand what you're saying but I can tell you if anybody says that here who isn't white they'll be behind bars. And how many tickets should one have to pay when they have done nothing wrong? Even if the ticket is thrown out you have to pay court cost. Usually it isn't. If you hire a lawyer you have to pay them, the ticket and court cost if the judge doesn't care. Rarely are the actions of the officer or the da questioned. We pay taxes to take care of the roads, pay the police, the public servants, judges... We pay for a DL. We Pay insurance for ourselves and others, we pay IF we break traffic laws, we pay MORE to say we DIDN'T break traffic laws, we pay MORE to hire a lawyer, and we still pay MORE if we are found NOT GUILTY which only happens if you hire a very expensive lawyer. Speeders still speed. Drunks still hit and kill people.




If the ticket is thrown out you don't have to pay the court costs, that means the case is dismissed and your found not guilty.

I've seen people get found not guilty being represented by a Public Pretender err Public Defender.....

germanchoclate1981's photo
Sun 09/13/15 03:03 AM





Case by case scenario...Wariness should not turn into paranoia...

Case by case is the root of this problem. Name one case where failure to signal a lane change properly for someone who has not committed any other crime and has no outstanding warrants ends with them being jailed. Other than the Sandra Bland case. Any?
We saw the officer use excessive force, threaten to "light her up" with his tazer then openly lie to his supervisor about " trying to deescalate her but she just wasn't going for it".
The actions of that bad cop wasn't paranoia, it was criminal.
The "missed" cell check and her subsequent hanging... She failed to signal properly, she didn't have a trunk full of illegal guns, kilos of cocaine, dead bodies, or anything. She failed to signal properly. Minor moving violation, they don't try that in criminal court.





The problem with the Bland case was she was uncooperative.


If you get pulled over and don't agree with it just give the officer your license, insurance and registration and tell him\her respectfully conversation over, give me a ticket or let me go and sort it out in court. No need in getting confrontational with the officer that just makes things worse and makes you look guilty when it does go to court and if you by chance do pull that with a dirty cop, well your screwed.


Uncooperative... That's, off. This is the problem with this case. She pulled over. She stopped. She rolled her window down. Those are 3 conscious choices she made to comply with the officer.
I now know about a judicial review in some States at least that allow the officer to remove the driver from the car if either's life is in danger, at the officers discretion. His life wasn't in danger. She wasn't exactly Mary poppins, but all my life I've been told to stay inside the car and keep my hands where they can be seen. Many officers have told me "for my safety and yours, stay inside the car unless I tell you otherwise." He was clearly annoyed by her, but that's not a reason to yank a WOMAN out of a car or threaten a WOMAN with a tazer when she fears for her safety and possibly her life. You stay in the car so the officer knows you're not trying to push him into oncoming traffic, or if the person has been drinking they don't step out into traffic themselves. He also called his supervisor and gave them a fabricated story of him trying to deescalate the situation where he is actually the aggressor. She (depending on the State) affirmed a defense. She didn't jump out of the car and attack him. She didn't wrestle him to the ground, she didn't threaten him. That's the problem. Had she reached under the seat or pulled out a weapon of some kind that's a different situation. Had she pulled him in or hit him with the door, or otherwise initiated physicality, ok. If she was a felon or the car was stolen, different thing.

I understand what you're saying but I can tell you if anybody says that here who isn't white they'll be behind bars. And how many tickets should one have to pay when they have done nothing wrong? Even if the ticket is thrown out you have to pay court cost. Usually it isn't. If you hire a lawyer you have to pay them, the ticket and court cost if the judge doesn't care. Rarely are the actions of the officer or the da questioned. We pay taxes to take care of the roads, pay the police, the public servants, judges... We pay for a DL. We Pay insurance for ourselves and others, we pay IF we break traffic laws, we pay MORE to say we DIDN'T break traffic laws, we pay MORE to hire a lawyer, and we still pay MORE if we are found NOT GUILTY which only happens if you hire a very expensive lawyer. Speeders still speed. Drunks still hit and kill people.




If the ticket is thrown out you don't have to pay the court costs, that means the case is dismissed and your found not guilty.

I've seen people get found not guilty being represented by a Public Pretender err Public Defender.....

No, you were right the first time.

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