Previous 1
Topic: Unemployment
mig25's photo
Thu 02/13/14 09:09 AM
Creating jobs will bring down the debt. And as a small business owner who happens to have a contract with the DC government that requires me to create jobs, I can tell you first hand that the best way to create jobs is to pass the unemployment bill then attach it to securing employment. You can accomplish this by allowing employers to hire folks receiving unemployment benefits by matching their benefits for six months (or if their benefits plus the match exceeds the normal rate of pay then match it until meets but not exceeds a typical employee’s pay rate). Then the employers must hire that employee at the normal pay rate. The government should also provide incentives such as lower tax rates when and only when they participate in this type of program. Thus you've created the incentive to go back to work as well as opportunities for employers to hire while paying lower wages. This may even help with the hiring of illegals since it lowers the cost employers are paying employees.
You could also tie the benefits to volunteering . . . example would be a person would only have access to the unemployment benefits if they volunteer with a nonprofit agency. The thought process is that when you are actively participating in a work environment you are being productive. And by volunteering you are possibly learning a new job skill. The government could also provide incentives to the nonprofit organizations who hire these folks after they’ve volunteered for a while. It’s a win/win situation simply because companies usually are hiring from time to time and it’s always best to hire someone who understands what you’re doing and how you’re doing it . . . the continuity of services.

msharmony's photo
Thu 02/13/14 10:45 AM
all great ideas

but how would that fit in for the unemployed with children who aren't school aged, they would need child care to 'volunteer', but wouldn't have income from that 'volunteer' job to arrange it,,,

mig25's photo
Thu 02/13/14 02:03 PM

all great ideas

but how would that fit in for the unemployed with children who aren't school aged, they would need child care to 'volunteer', but wouldn't have income from that 'volunteer' job to arrange it,,,


Very good question …and I’m sure there are a number of people who would fall into this category. There are a number of options that could be available; one solution could that state and/or local government agencies could create a list of approved organizations/businesses where someone would be able to secure a volunteer position. Many churches have day care centers attached to them and if the government agencies had a voucher program that could be used for childcare then this would eliminate the additional cost. One would not have to volunteer the entire day therefore someone participating in the program would have a chance to make arrangements for childcare. Another solution would be that rather than volunteering the individual participates in the paid version of the program. The idea here is one, lower the unemployment rate, and, two lower the national debt.
There are jobs available. There are people who need jobs. If a new unemployment bill is passed then that would be a great thing but there is no reason why it could not be tied to an incentive that would eventually solve a number of problems.


msharmony's photo
Thu 02/13/14 02:08 PM
I agree,

and childcare vouchers to assist in the transitioning to jobs

incentives for employers to pay more and reach out more to those needing employment

perhaps incentives to employers for rideshare programs as well, I have worked at one employer who participated and it helps for those who struggle with transportation to employers that are not near their residential area...


mig25's photo
Thu 02/13/14 02:15 PM
More great ideas . . . what I find to be true as I go about identifying jobs for the people I provide services for is that often times the lack of understanding what your potential is causes the most problems. That goes for employers and employees. If we have these incentives put in place then we can eradicate the stagnant unemployment numbers. And, truth be told, most of these incentives could honestly pay for themselves if done correctly.

msharmony's photo
Thu 02/13/14 02:20 PM
my mothers career was accounting and we have talked many times about the economy and solutions and many of your ideas are similar

I think vocational counseling is/will be an ENORMOUS asset in the work towards decreasing unemployment and economic instability,,,

you hit the nail on the head, many people don't know what their 'value' is and they don't know where to go to learn about how to market it,, they don't have those networks that can expose them to the resources

inclusion of such networks in an economic solution would work wonders, in my opinion

mig25's photo
Thu 02/13/14 02:28 PM

my mothers career was accounting and we have talked many times about the economy and solutions and many of your ideas are similar

I think vocational counseling is/will be an ENORMOUS asset in the work towards decreasing unemployment and economic instability,,,

you hit the nail on the head, many people don't know what their 'value' is and they don't know where to go to learn about how to market it,, they don't have those networks that can expose them to the resources

inclusion of such networks in an economic solution would work wonders, in my opinion


And your opinion would be absolutely correct. There are tons of Supported Employment agencies that provide employment supports for individuals with disabilities. It would be a wonderful thing if somehow these agencies also provided supports for those who are unemployed. Here you have an agency whose sole purpose is to provide employment supports. They have job leads. The staff members at these agencies are trained for years to do this and yet these agencies aren’t even an afterthought. Just because they specifically work with folks who are disabled doesn’t mean their jobs leads are those who are disabled or that they don’t have the expertise to move beyond just working with the disabled. They are also paid by local/state/and federal government agencies.

InvictusV's photo
Thu 02/13/14 08:54 PM
this is all interesting and such, but how do tax credits for low paying jobs and vouchers for volunteer work bring down the debt?

getting people off unemployment into low paying jobs does nothing for the debt. unemployment insurance is taxed just like the low paying job and neither will owe any income tax.

you want employers to reap the benefits of cheap labor while getting tax credits to do it.

I can appreciate the idea of volunteerism and it is something we all need to do more of, but as far as using that to better your chances of getting a job or whatever you are implying might happen is hardly enough.

Increased revenue through real job creation and cutting wasteful spending is how you reduce the debt.


mig25's photo
Fri 02/14/14 08:19 AM

this is all interesting and such, but how do tax credits for low paying jobs and vouchers for volunteer work bring down the debt?

getting people off unemployment into low paying jobs does nothing for the debt. unemployment insurance is taxed just like the low paying job and neither will owe any income tax.

you want employers to reap the benefits of cheap labor while getting tax credits to do it.

I can appreciate the idea of volunteerism and it is something we all need to do more of, but as far as using that to better your chances of getting a job or whatever you are implying might happen is hardly enough.

Increased revenue through real job creation and cutting wasteful spending is how you reduce the debt.

I do appreciate your comments and you make some great points. The idea isn’t to allow businesses to reap the benefits of cheap labor while receiving a tax credit. Obviously there will have to be certain policies put in place to address every issue. The volunteer idea is based on the employer hiring the individual within a three month time frame which is the exact amount of time their benefits would last. Volunteering only gives that employer a chance to train the individual on how to do the job according their standards but they are required to hire them to receive any tax benefits. You are truly right when you say we need real job creation. All that I’m suggesting is, and mind you this is based on the fact that I’ve been doing this for more than twenty five years and I happen to be a small business owner to boot, creating incentives for employers to hire and for folks to not depend on benefits. And keep in mind, the first suggestion is not to volunteer but instead to tie benefits to employment. If a business understands that they can cheaper labor they will take advantage of that. And why not? They will be required to regular wages and keep that person employed for a certain time frame in order to qualify for the tax benefits. And the thinking is that we need to reduce the corporate tax rate anyway so why not do it through employment.



Dodo_David's photo
Fri 02/14/14 08:51 AM
I would like to point out a piece of reality that tends to get overlooked whenever unemployment is discussed.

All too often, there is a mismatch between the experience, knowledge and skills possessed by people who are unemployed and the experience, knowledge and skills needed for the jobs that are available.

Employers create jobs in order to fill needs that the employers have, not to give people jobs to do.

If employers needs people for X jobs, then it does no good to encourage the creation of Y jobs just because some unemployed people can do Y jobs.

Plus, in the USA at least, the desire for affluent living drives young people to pursue training in occupations that have become over-saturated, instead of pursuing trades that can keep them fed and living in sufficient comfort. That over-saturation prevents people from obtaining the jobs that they have trained for.

InvictusV's photo
Fri 02/14/14 09:10 AM

I would like to point out a piece of reality that tends to get overlooked whenever unemployment is discussed.

All too often, there is a mismatch between the experience, knowledge and skills possessed by people who are unemployed and the experience, knowledge and skills needed for the jobs that are available.

Employers create jobs in order to fill needs that the employers have, not to give people jobs to do.

If employers needs people for X jobs, then it does no good to encourage the creation of Y jobs just because some unemployed people can do Y jobs.

Plus, in the USA at least, the desire for affluent living drives young people to pursue training in occupations that have become over-saturated, instead of pursuing trades that can keep them fed and living in sufficient comfort. That over-saturation prevents people from obtaining the jobs that they have trained for.


You are exactly right.

Here in maryland we have had between 80,000 and 100,000 jobs that have been open for at least a year and no one to fill them.

Its not that we have no unemployed it is because those seeking jobs don't have the skills to fill them.


no photo
Fri 02/14/14 09:26 AM

Creating jobs will bring down the debt. And as a small business owner who happens to have a contract with the DC government that requires me to create jobs, I can tell you first hand that the best way to create jobs is to pass the unemployment bill then attach it to securing employment. You can accomplish this by allowing employers to hire folks receiving unemployment benefits by matching their benefits for six months (or if their benefits plus the match exceeds the normal rate of pay then match it until meets but not exceeds a typical employee’s pay rate). Then the employers must hire that employee at the normal pay rate. The government should also provide incentives such as lower tax rates when and only when they participate in this type of program. Thus you've created the incentive to go back to work as well as opportunities for employers to hire while paying lower wages. This may even help with the hiring of illegals since it lowers the cost employers are paying employees.
You could also tie the benefits to volunteering . . . example would be a person would only have access to the unemployment benefits if they volunteer with a nonprofit agency. The thought process is that when you are actively participating in a work environment you are being productive. And by volunteering you are possibly learning a new job skill. The government could also provide incentives to the nonprofit organizations who hire these folks after they’ve volunteered for a while. It’s a win/win situation simply because companies usually are hiring from time to time and it’s always best to hire someone who understands what you’re doing and how you’re doing it . . . the continuity of services.



There seems to be a problem with your first premise, "creating jobs bring down the debt", it doesn't it increases debt and drastically. In order to understand the concept, you must understand the fractional reserve system whereas increase debt results in increased money which increases cash flow and results in jobs. The real fallacy in this equation is that not all debt has the same results, i.e. government spending, where available money is taken form those that have and given to others, robbing the economy of the type of spending that makes things go round.

This is where the problems lie, fractional reserve. It is devised so that the banks play yoyo with the economy, building up and breaking down.

This is but an oversimplification of the process but this process is the problem.

no photo
Fri 02/14/14 09:33 AM

all great ideas

but how would that fit in for the unemployed with children who aren't school aged, they would need child care to 'volunteer', but wouldn't have income from that 'volunteer' job to arrange it,,,


Could you please explain which of these ideas would be great and why, just can't see it.

The base premise of the argument is flawed, therefore anything that depends on that premise is flawed and invalid.

And one of the statement is downright illegal and has been adjudicated so in the courts many times, you may not have slave labor.

no photo
Fri 02/14/14 09:35 AM


all great ideas

but how would that fit in for the unemployed with children who aren't school aged, they would need child care to 'volunteer', but wouldn't have income from that 'volunteer' job to arrange it,,,


Very good question …and I’m sure there are a number of people who would fall into this category. There are a number of options that could be available; one solution could that state and/or local government agencies could create a list of approved organizations/businesses where someone would be able to secure a volunteer position. Many churches have day care centers attached to them and if the government agencies had a voucher program that could be used for childcare then this would eliminate the additional cost. One would not have to volunteer the entire day therefore someone participating in the program would have a chance to make arrangements for childcare. Another solution would be that rather than volunteering the individual participates in the paid version of the program. The idea here is one, lower the unemployment rate, and, two lower the national debt.
There are jobs available. There are people who need jobs. If a new unemployment bill is passed then that would be a great thing but there is no reason why it could not be tied to an incentive that would eventually solve a number of problems.




And exactly were in this republic is this enumerated? Government is the problem, not the solution (one of the few things Reagan actually got right).

no photo
Fri 02/14/14 09:40 AM

this is all interesting and such, but how do tax credits for low paying jobs and vouchers for volunteer work bring down the debt?

getting people off unemployment into low paying jobs does nothing for the debt. unemployment insurance is taxed just like the low paying job and neither will owe any income tax.

you want employers to reap the benefits of cheap labor while getting tax credits to do it.

I can appreciate the idea of volunteerism and it is something we all need to do more of, but as far as using that to better your chances of getting a job or whatever you are implying might happen is hardly enough.

Increased revenue through real job creation and cutting wasteful spending is how you reduce the debt.




Somebody is getting the picture. The proposal is like New York getting workers for like $0.80 as hour to justify welfare while what used to be a real job is eliminated. So the hopeless get even more so.

msharmony's photo
Fri 02/14/14 09:41 AM
one person has offered solutions, good for them.

if the money is already being spent in ways people gripe about (means tested programs), what is the problem with redirecting the WAY the money is spent?

I wonder if we will have any other solutions offered or just more of what is 'wrong' with everyone and everything,,,,,

InvictusV's photo
Fri 02/14/14 09:45 AM

one person has offered solutions, good for them.

if the money is already being spent in ways people gripe about (means tested programs), what is the problem with redirecting the WAY the money is spent?

I wonder if we will have any other solutions offered or just more of what is 'wrong' with everyone and everything,,,,,


haha..

here is one that should be changed.

Can a claimant receive unemployment benefits while attending school or receiving training?

A. A claimant is disqualified for benefits for any week in which the individual is a student in full time (at least 12 credits) attendance at, or on vacation from, any public or other nonprofit educational institution, except in cases in which the claimant establishes 20 or more base weeks of employment or meets the alternative earnings test during academic term(s) in the base-year.

The full-time student criteria do not apply to any individual attending a school or training program approved by the Division to enhance the individual’s employment opportunity.

http://lwd.dol.state.nj.us/labor/handbook/content/QandABenefits.html

no photo
Fri 02/14/14 09:48 AM


this is all interesting and such, but how do tax credits for low paying jobs and vouchers for volunteer work bring down the debt?

getting people off unemployment into low paying jobs does nothing for the debt. unemployment insurance is taxed just like the low paying job and neither will owe any income tax.

you want employers to reap the benefits of cheap labor while getting tax credits to do it.

I can appreciate the idea of volunteerism and it is something we all need to do more of, but as far as using that to better your chances of getting a job or whatever you are implying might happen is hardly enough.

Increased revenue through real job creation and cutting wasteful spending is how you reduce the debt.



I do appreciate your comments and you make some great points. The idea isn’t to allow businesses to reap the benefits of cheap labor while receiving a tax credit. Obviously there will have to be certain policies put in place to address every issue. The volunteer idea is based on the employer hiring the individual within a three month time frame which is the exact amount of time their benefits would last. Volunteering only gives that employer a chance to train the individual on how to do the job according their standards but they are required to hire them to receive any tax benefits. You are truly right when you say we need real job creation. All that I’m suggesting is, and mind you this is based on the fact that I’ve been doing this for more than twenty five years and I happen to be a small business owner to boot, creating incentives for employers to hire and for folks to not depend on benefits. And keep in mind, the first suggestion is not to volunteer but instead to tie benefits to employment. If a business understands that they can cheaper labor they will take advantage of that. And why not? They will be required to regular wages and keep that person employed for a certain time frame in order to qualify for the tax benefits. And the thinking is that we need to reduce the corporate tax rate anyway so why not do it through employment.



So what you are saying is that government should pay so a small business can use labor for free and then get extra tax incentives to keep that person, again at taxpayer expense. And then only certain businesses are eligible determined by some sort of government bureaucratic favoritism system.

Sort of sounds like what is not working now with a new twist.

Let me offer a much simpler system, get the government out of it entirely and people learn to support themselves. Quite simple really to get a roof over your head, clothes on your back and food in your belly. Everything after that is pure gravy.

Dodo_David's photo
Fri 02/14/14 09:49 AM

one person has offered solutions, good for them.

if the money is already being spent in ways people gripe about (means tested programs), what is the problem with redirecting the WAY the money is spent?

I wonder if we will have any other solutions offered or just more of what is 'wrong' with everyone and everything,,,,,


Before solutions can be offered, the sources of the problem have to be identified. That is what I do in my previous post in this thread.

no photo
Fri 02/14/14 09:53 AM

I would like to point out a piece of reality that tends to get overlooked whenever unemployment is discussed.

All too often, there is a mismatch between the experience, knowledge and skills possessed by people who are unemployed and the experience, knowledge and skills needed for the jobs that are available.

Employers create jobs in order to fill needs that the employers have, not to give people jobs to do.

If employers needs people for X jobs, then it does no good to encourage the creation of Y jobs just because some unemployed people can do Y jobs.

Plus, in the USA at least, the desire for affluent living drives young people to pursue training in occupations that have become over-saturated, instead of pursuing trades that can keep them fed and living in sufficient comfort. That over-saturation prevents people from obtaining the jobs that they have trained for.


Ah, you have hit upon a very valid point, young people that are suckered into going to college so they can get a job and in the end all they have is a worthless piece of paper and a huge debt. And then they go to work for McDonald's and demand they get paid $15.00 an hour.

Previous 1