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Topic: Edward Snowden's martyrdom
metalwing's photo
Mon 07/08/13 02:17 PM

There are many, many, many former Intelligence and Counter Intel people (probably in many countries too) who when they hit a situation in the course of their official functions that raises internal morality questions, they do the honorable thing. They resign from this or that program, or leave the service entirely, but they also keep to their oath and what Secret meant, and that will always mean Secret until someone else in a position of authority say it isn't Secret anymore.

Snowden, by his own words at press conferences, began being 'troubled' early in his association with the CIA. An Honorable person would have bowed out then. Snowden was/is not an Honorable person.

There is no one on this board who has not watched spy movies or read a spy novel. All of us understand that successful spying involves deception and sometimes not following the rules the other side thinks you should. Snowden watched those movies too. He intentionally sought a job with an agency that historically has been as deep into deception and skulduggery as can be imagined. Although I lived through the period of the House Assassination hearings, Snowden learned of them in school, so it was no surprise to him that we do that kind of thing sometimes, so he joined up. In Search of Enemies, Inside the Company and Decent Interval have been on book shelves for decades. Long enough so Snowden has both eyes open when he applies for his intelligence job.

Were there screwups in the decision to continue his clearance? Hell yeah. As soon as it was learned he was faking a college degree (you call this the mark of an honorable heroic person?) that didn't exist, that should have ended his career. Instead due to multiple screwups (the subject of multiple investigations and procedural overhauls all by themselves) some dumb person gave him access to things they shouldn't.

If I wanted to speculate I think Snowden knew his multiple falsehoods on his application were being uncovered and what he did to get fired at CIA was gonna be forwarded to the NSA. In the US if you lie on an EQIP (classified job application or SF84, 85, 86 et al) you are probably in for some legal expense as you try to avoid jail.

Snowden got a little panicky I think, knew he had to run and decided stealing documents might either give him a little insurance or bankroll the flight.

Like I wrote earlier, there is nothing new in the way of revelations that other similar thieves had not already talked about decades ago. Okay the computers are no longer driven by punch cards, so the technology is better and it is all more efficient. Everything he has released papers about was either (even if they pretend they didn't know) authorized by Congress and the Senate (much of it actually written into the Public Laws of the land) or approved by a Secret Treaty. Yes, some International Treaties are Secret and remain so for a very long time. Teddy R's 1904/1905 approval of the Japanese invasion of Korea is a good example.

At no time in past 40 years have you heard any Commander-in-Chief say while under an oath, we will now stop doing these things. You probably aren't going to either. That is the Universe you live in. You will never be King so there is nothing you can do about it. Even if you were the King, doing the same thing is essential to your survival.

(from another Forum)


Good analysis.

The main difference between a whistle blower and a traitor is that the traitor reveals classified documents while the whistle blower just points out wrongdoing or excessive spending.

Conrad_73's photo
Mon 07/08/13 02:43 PM


There are many, many, many former Intelligence and Counter Intel people (probably in many countries too) who when they hit a situation in the course of their official functions that raises internal morality questions, they do the honorable thing. They resign from this or that program, or leave the service entirely, but they also keep to their oath and what Secret meant, and that will always mean Secret until someone else in a position of authority say it isn't Secret anymore.

Snowden, by his own words at press conferences, began being 'troubled' early in his association with the CIA. An Honorable person would have bowed out then. Snowden was/is not an Honorable person.

There is no one on this board who has not watched spy movies or read a spy novel. All of us understand that successful spying involves deception and sometimes not following the rules the other side thinks you should. Snowden watched those movies too. He intentionally sought a job with an agency that historically has been as deep into deception and skulduggery as can be imagined. Although I lived through the period of the House Assassination hearings, Snowden learned of them in school, so it was no surprise to him that we do that kind of thing sometimes, so he joined up. In Search of Enemies, Inside the Company and Decent Interval have been on book shelves for decades. Long enough so Snowden has both eyes open when he applies for his intelligence job.

Were there screwups in the decision to continue his clearance? Hell yeah. As soon as it was learned he was faking a college degree (you call this the mark of an honorable heroic person?) that didn't exist, that should have ended his career. Instead due to multiple screwups (the subject of multiple investigations and procedural overhauls all by themselves) some dumb person gave him access to things they shouldn't.

If I wanted to speculate I think Snowden knew his multiple falsehoods on his application were being uncovered and what he did to get fired at CIA was gonna be forwarded to the NSA. In the US if you lie on an EQIP (classified job application or SF84, 85, 86 et al) you are probably in for some legal expense as you try to avoid jail.

Snowden got a little panicky I think, knew he had to run and decided stealing documents might either give him a little insurance or bankroll the flight.

Like I wrote earlier, there is nothing new in the way of revelations that other similar thieves had not already talked about decades ago. Okay the computers are no longer driven by punch cards, so the technology is better and it is all more efficient. Everything he has released papers about was either (even if they pretend they didn't know) authorized by Congress and the Senate (much of it actually written into the Public Laws of the land) or approved by a Secret Treaty. Yes, some International Treaties are Secret and remain so for a very long time. Teddy R's 1904/1905 approval of the Japanese invasion of Korea is a good example.

At no time in past 40 years have you heard any Commander-in-Chief say while under an oath, we will now stop doing these things. You probably aren't going to either. That is the Universe you live in. You will never be King so there is nothing you can do about it. Even if you were the King, doing the same thing is essential to your survival.

(from another Forum)


Good analysis.

The main difference between a whistle blower and a traitor is that the traitor reveals classified documents while the whistle blower just points out wrongdoing or excessive spending.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Bestinshow's photo
Mon 07/08/13 04:13 PM
Edited by Bestinshow on Mon 07/08/13 04:14 PM
Snowden is not the traitor its those who violate the constitution. Anyone hear about the fourth amendment?

Sojourning_Soul's photo
Fri 07/12/13 08:19 AM


Edward Snowden appears at Moscow airport and renews asylum claim – live

Live• NSA whistleblower meets human rights groups
• Renews Russia asylum claim in tactic to leave Moscow
• Calls on international groups to offer protection
• Media scrum at Sheremetyevo airport for meeting


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/12/edward-snowden-to-meet-amnesty-and-human-rights-watch-at-moscow-airport-live-coverag

JustDukkyMkII's photo
Sun 07/14/13 04:00 AM
I heard a rumor that Obama was so upset about the latest interview that he called Putin to tell him off. I sure would love to get the NSA recordings on THAT call! (though I can imagine it):

Obama: You'd better shut him up Vlad, or there will be Hell to pay!!

Putin: Let me get this straight; you're so unafraid of the Russian nuclear deterrent that you're willing to arm your (allegedly) most hated terrorist enemy called "al CIAda" in Syria, but you are so $hit scared of Snowden that you're pissed at my country for not whacking him?

Obama: Shut him up!...I mean it!

Putin: Tell you what, You pull your goons out of Syria, recognize Palestine's statehood, get Israel to sign the NPF Treaty, Live up to your NPF obligations to Iran and help with their nuke program, Pay reparations to Iraq for some of the damages, and vote with Russia on the next, say 6 security council resolutions and I'll think about it...How's that?

Obama: &$&)^$@$%!!!!

Putin: By the way, I didn't get the satellite shot from the NSA's files today...Was my hair parted straight?

Obama: *click* bzzzzzzzzzzz

Bestinshow's photo
Sun 07/14/13 04:09 AM
Putin : by the way Mr Obama respect your countries 4th amendment before you tell me how to run my country.

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