kingbreeze wrote:
"i don't think that you have to believe in a GOD to have a soul. just depends on your interpetation of what a human soul really is."

Right on brother!

ONE!


That's it...one thing or no thing ... nothing separate...one energy...one source...one consciousness...one

...individualized for a time as these personalities we put on like an overcoat ... so the one may know itself...that is the illusion...we cannot be truly separate.

If you truly get it ... judgment, offense, war etc. seem all the more ridiculous ... as ridiculous as my right hand shooting off my left ... part of the same being...


sigh......

Spirituality is a huge part of my life. I do not believe in the bible, but I do know that people are different than animals. I believe we can 'develop' our souls, so to speak, with meditation and practice.

MsRach wrote:
“…but I do know that people are different than animals.”

Oh tsk tsk!

If you're going to buy into that disgusting bigotry you may as well believe in the Bible.

Hiya James

{{{{Sherrie}}}}

i believe the state of this country is more to blame on the nonvoter than any other group even the political parties


because they (the nonvoter) do not send a message

and thus saying all is well

when they start enforcing some of these all is well passed doctrine i wonder who will be the first to mouth of about its injustice

just a thought

my blood has been brought and paid thru jesus christ thru his death and rise from the grave.

Amazing that we have so many discoveries yet skeptics see theses as no proof at all. i know everyone has heard the story of jonah. For hundreds of years Nineveh and jonah even by the elders have taught this story is a metaphor and thier was no Jonah or Nineveh.I believe in the last 10 years that nineveh was found. Well just by happen stance you know as they were excavating at the entrance of the lost ninevah. They found Zues. Oh wrong story. They found a statue of a man called yahcanan I believe is the paleo hebrew.Then thier are the roads that none has been able to find so they were discarded as fiction also. Well lo and behold that modern machine called a satellite found those ancient roads. Just where the bible says they were. Now you can believe in a lighting bolt man. Or the ferry g-d mother. But for me and my house we will believe in Yahshua ( Yahweh is Salvation).. thier is plenty that can be proved that our science is just now proving. Sounds like someone created us to me. I may look like a big Ape but I am not one. Nor did i crawl up out of the sea and evolve. Blessings.... Miles

Evidence of actual events of stories that may be in the Bible is not proof of anything other than the folklore may have been sparked by actual events in human history. I have no doubt about that myself. I imagine that there was indeed a great flood that sparked the story of Noah, for example. To find evidence of a flood doesn’t prove divine intervention, it merely explains that real events gave rise to the folklore.

So evidence of the existence of cities, civilizations, or even actual events is no proof at all of any divine intervention, all it proves is that people actually existed when those stories were written and that they were probably sparked by natural events that actually occurred.

How would that be proof of anything divine? As far as I’m concerned it’s not proof of anything other than the fact that people were alive at the time those stories were told. I would expect that much.

Moreover, there is overwhelming physical evidence that we evolved from ape-like creatures, yet many religious people pass that off as being inconclusive. No religious person who denies evolution will ever convince me that they have proof of anything because it’s clear to me that they don’t’ even know what proof is. We have more physical evidence for our evolution than we have for any other single fact that we know.

So you’ll never convince me that you have proof of the existence of the deity in the Bible. That deity cannot exist on purely logical grounds. It would be an inconsistent deity. Even if it did exist it would be untrustworthy. It would be a dangerous egocentric demon that clearly keeps changing its mind on how it would like to proceed with things. It most certainly wouldn’t be a stable all-loving all-compassionate god. It’s behavior in the Bible has been too radical and inconsistent.

At one point it drown all of humanity save for one guy and his immediate family. Then it felt bad and made a rainbow as a covenant to promise never to take a temper tantrum like that again. Of course, to make a rainbow it needed to change the laws of physics, otherwise rainbows would have always existed prior to that. Yet any astrophysicist will gladly tell you that the physics of the universe hasn’t changed in over 14 billion years! Long before the time of Noah. And yes, that know that!

That should be all the proof you need right there that the stories in the Bible can’t possibly be true! They were written by people who didn’t even know what caused a rainbow! We caught them dead to rights! They made up a story that we have clearly shown was a fable!

The Bible is mythology, pure and simple. It's a proven fact for anyone who seriously wants to know.

sorry. your dating methods of our very existance are flawed science. The ape thing if we evolved from them then that would make them our distant cousins, right? If so then is thier any genetic evidence that we can trace our cromensones ( bad speller) to. Any DNA match ups. Now how about this one for instance biblical design lets say. The scriptures clearly say do not eat the blood for life is in the blood. So the israelites (and i follow this)had to bleed and prepare all thier meats well done( no rare steaks) Yet i am sure you grew up where it was perfectly normal and ok to eat the blood. now without the science we have today how is it 3 or 4 thousand years ago somene knew this? I mean with all the sicknesses from saminela poisening and yet now we are told do not worry about the beef as long as it is cooked well done all no pink.How is this possible Abra. Did an Ape figure this out and pass it down? And back to the genetics the levitical priesthood that came through Aaron or the (cohens)how is it people around the globe can trace thier genes to this tribe through science? Can you trace your to an Ape? This would be interesting.. Blessings just because you can not put your finger on it does not mean it does not exist. Where does the wind come from anyway? can you see it?... Miles

Miles wrote:
“…,now without the science we have today how is it 3 or 4 thousand years ago somene knew this?
How is this possible Abra. Did an Ape figure this out and pass it down?”

The fact of the matter is that no one actually knew this 3 or 4 thousand years ago. It’s really quite simple. The people who ate raw meat often got sick and died. The people who preferred to cook their meat survived. There’s no mystery there.

Miles wrote:
“And back to the genetics the levitical priesthood that came through Aaron or the (cohens)how is it people around the globe can trace thier genes to this tribe through science? Can you trace your to an Ape?”

Well, first of all you’re talking about the difference between tracing a lineage back a couple thousand years versus tracing a lineage back several hundred thousand years. The bottom line is that all human beings are a single species. We are ultimately all brothers and sisters. We are all directly related.

Are you aware that biologically speaking there isn’t even any such thing as race? There is no biological grounds for breaking the human species into separate races. The whole idea of race is purely based on groups of people who have adapted to particular geological and environmental conditions. In other words, there is no genetic justification for creating a category called “race” within the human species. The idea of race is a layman idea, not an idea from the science of genetics.

Moreover, if you actually try to go there scientifically what you’d ultimately have to do is claim that each and every individual is a separate “race” because there is no biological reason to be drawing that line in the first place. In other words, there’s simply no consistent genetic configuration that could be unambiguously classified as “race”.

There are more profound differences between human DNA and the DNA of other animals. However, even those distinctions are small in the overall picture. It’s already perfectly clear that we are more closely related to Chimpanzees than any other animal on the planet. That doesn’t mean that we evolved from Chimpanzees, but rather it does imply that we share a common ancestor with the Chimpanzees.

You don’t believe in evolution, yet you believe that genetics can be traced back to some ancient priest?

It just appears to me that you simply accept what you’d like to believe and reject whatever you’d rather not believe. No problem. You’re not alone, this is a common human behavior.

The bottom line when it comes to *proof* is that there is much more proof of evolution, and that the universe is over 14 billion years old, and that the physics of rainbows has always existed than there is to believe in the mythological stories of the Bible. This is why they called believing in the Bible an act of “faith”. It can’t be proven. On the contrary there is overwhelming evidence of why it can’t possibly be true.

People just don’t want to accept that because they want to believe in something magical, and without the ancient mythological stories to give credence to their beliefs they have no where else to turn. So they cling to the mythology defending it’s credibility until they are blue in the face. This is their belief. It’s their security blanket and they aren’t prepared to give it up for a world of scientific knowledge, because scientific knowledge clearly has no answer concerning the mystical nature of our essence. In fact, the formal scientific method rejects any idea that cannot be consistently observed with controlled repetition.

Science, in and of itself, can never become a “religion” by it’s very nature. The “scientific method” rejects any conclusions that cannot be observationally verified with dependable consistency. Therefore, people who are seeking a mystical explanation of our existence cannot turn to science for that explanation. Thus they turn to mythology that promises a mystical explanation. That choice requires pure faith, and the rejection of scientific observation. So to even talk about “proof” in that context is to deny the very essence of religion in the first place.

Keep in mind miles, that you were the one who suggested that proof exists for the Bible.

Miles wrote:
“Amazing that we have so many discoveries yet skeptics see theses as no proof at all.”

None of the discoveries that you have mentioned are any proof of any mystical nature associated with the Bible, pure and simple. At best, all you have proof of is that the mythological stories in the Bible were indeed written by ancient authors and most likely sparked by real natural events. But I think most “skeptics” would concede to that. That’s not *proof* of anything, other than that the Bible actually was written by real people long ago. But we already know that.

If you want to believe in the Bible it’s best to do it on pure faith, because as soon as you start looking for proof you are going to find much more proof against the Bible than for it (assuming you look with a truly open mind).

How to answer such a broad question?

I believe many things. I believe in a creative force that I choose to see as benevolent and call "God". I do not know how God works. I just know that this planet is packed with fascinating and beautiful things, feelings, and thoughts... I believe that the formation of all these were set in motion or created by another who is beyond my ability to comprehend.

I believe that our actions have repercussions much wider than we might anticipate. I believe in dark and light, creativity and destruction. I believe that kindness, compassion and love bring light and joy into the world and that ignorance, cruelty and hatred bring darkness and destruction into the world. I believe in doing what is right, in making the best choices I can because, when possible, I would rather be a creature that increases joy in the world than one that increases sorrow.

I believe that there are elements of both fate/destiny and free will in our lives. That there are several paths or roads open to us and our decisions determine where we end up. But not in a reward/punishment sense but just that there is more than one possibility for my ultimate existance. Some possibilities might be "better" in some senses but in the overall scheme of things they are just different.

I believe that the world is full of sorrow and that the 8fold path can be a guide to living that is one way to overcome sorrow. I also believe in trying to live in harmony with the world, trying to develop and listen to your instincts, trying to grow in empathy and serenity.

I believe that we may be recycled/reincarnated- reborn here or perhaps travel from one place or time to another. But I do not know. I do not know what happens when we "die". I do not belive that we just "stop" though... there is something else... whether it is rebirth or consciousness or becoming part of something else I do not know...

Abra
Just wanted to ley u know i have not forgot about u . i will try to answer you this weekend... Blessings of Shalom.... Miles

I believe in God. I believe in the power of prayer. In the deepest, darkest moments throughout my life, I've prayed for His help & He has always brought me through my troubles. Many might say that that is just luck or whatever, but I believe that God heard my prayers, that He answered them by granting me what I prayed for. I don't attend church regularily, but was raised in a very faithful Christian family. I've seen how their faith has kept them positive about life, death & everything in between. That has stuck with me throughout my life & will until I walk through the gates & sit at His feet. He is here for me & always will be.

Abra
You write that the people through trial and error came to find that eating the blood and fat would make you sick. I find this hard to believe since science just recently said that disease lives in the blood. Naustradamus when disease was killing thousands went in and taught cleanliness that rats were spreading the disease. He was part Jew.A report that we are not told about was done about the melting point of pork fat vs beef fat was done many years ago. They found that pork fat had a melting point of 105 degrees and beef at 101. what did they conclude? That to rid you veins of pork fat you had to be deathly sick but beef any arobic exersize for 20 minutes would flush the fat out so to speak. In the bible when it calls something an abomination to you it is say bad for you and sickness. Now i do not think that mere humans just drew this out of the air but was given these instructions for thier health.Then do you remember the dateline show i believe about when the AMA decided to do a study to find out where heart disease was the least in the world? What they found went completely against what they have been recommending for years. Yet the Apostle Paul knew, The AMA found that the french people have the lowest heart disease in the world. Why? Thier custom is to drink a glass of wine with thier meals. This in turn relaxes thier system and we know stress in our fast pace world is a killer.But what did the Apostle paul say about our helth in this regard?

1 Tim 5:23

23 No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach's sake and your frequent infirmities
NKJV
That Abra sounds like a physisians advice yet paul was no doctor. no the spirit of truth told him what was good and what was bad. Then i know all of us have met someone for the 1st time and your sences told you to leave get away from this person. The we have met someone who when we 1st meet them are at complete ease as if we had known them all are lives. Can science explain this? The bible shows us many times that this was done and known amoung the prophets and Apostles.

1 Cor 12:4-11

4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Elohim. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same El who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.
NKJV
In verse 10 we see the dicerning of spirits. You see Abra I know thier is a creator who watches over those who obey him and love him. Thier is proof of me being jerked around like a ragdoll during the flood of 93. i had grabbed a hold of 14400 volts. I could not speak i could not jump to try to get away from it and i could not see. I thought this is it I am dead. Then the only thing i could think of was "Yahshua help me"saying it in my mind. I was the emmediately let go. I was rushed to a burn unit and kept over night as the doctors were sure i was burn't on the inside. Yet they found nothing. The next day when a doctor came and talked to me he said he had no explanation why I was not dead then alone not hurt at all. the safety committee went out and did review the next day and the substation had been taken out of commission and they went into a voltage regulator? What did they find? A insulater that was designed to carry that voltage failed and went to ground taking the sub out.How do you explain this? I know Yahweh Saved me meaning Yahshua. Then a few days later i was called into my super's office and he asked me if i wanted to take a less dagerous job. I told him no. Then he tols me i was the 1st person in the companies 100+ year history to live through an accident like this and the he shook his head and said and you have no injuries he was just dumb founded. I also Abra met a girl in the Air Force Hostpital in Denver over 20 years ago. She was told she had Hodginsin disease and was told she had 6 months to live. I went thier with a couple friends and when i saw her i knew immediately she was not going to die. After talking with her for a while I said"Angie don't worry about this thier is nothing wrong with u" well she got very upset at me.She was flown to a hospital in El paso Texas where they did exploritory surgery and they confirmed that the outlook was not good. They have all this on file in El paso. Then they talked to Angie and told her they wanted to send her to San Antonio Tx to do surgery but they could not gauratee the outcome. She agreed. I went again to the hostpital with her fiance. She told us she was to be flown thier the next day.She asked me now do you still believe nothing is wrong with me. I told her yes they will find nothing wrong with you. When they opened her up in San Antonio they found nothing. Angie said the next day the doctors showed her 2 sets of exrays one with what they though was the disease and one that looked normal. She is still alive today. Thier are many other instances like this but people just do not want to believe we were created and that Yahweh can do anything. Shalom Abra May Yahweh's Blessings Be Upon Your House.... Miles

i believe that all higher powers are one and the same god/satan/goddess and that jesus was a buddah

Miles,

I don’t think you give the sages of old enough credit. You want to attribute this to divine knowledge associated with the Bible or Quaran, but men in cultures from all over the world have given similar advice. So these things are not unique to any one doctrine.

As far as the seemingly “miraculous” situations that people have experienced, again I have no need to attribute those situations to the selective act of a deity. I’ve studied the mathematics of probability and statistics enough to know that what may seem to you to be a “freak” thing is actually quite statistically commonplace.

Moreover, why should a god favor saving your butt whilst allowing so many others to suffer and die? Don’t you think that view would be a little egocentric on your part?

That would be like someone who worked at the World Trade Center deciding to take the day off, or having been prevented from going to work the day the buildings collapsed attributing that to god having saved them. How egocentric is that? What about all the other people who did go to work that day? Did god not give a hoot about them?

Science and mathematics actually predict that there will be events that occur that will fall outside of what we consider to be the norm. So these things do not surprise scientists who genuinely understand these things. I think your view of science is probably what’s askew in all of this.

There is no cold hard evidence that points to the validation of any religion. Nothing you have presented here surprises me or convinces me of anything. From my point of view it just your own desire to prove one thing over another.

I have no desire to change your view. If that’s what you believe then so be it, but your arguments simply don’t hold water from my point of view. Your conclusions are simply unjustified based on the your limited evidence. (i.e. you seem to fail to realize that all religions have had sages making similar claims and giving similar advice). If this were in fact not the case then everyone would focus solely on the one religion that was consistently correct. But that simply isn’t the case. There is no one religion that has consistently outshone any other. To believe so is to simply reject the broader evidence of history.

Even many primitive tribes that believed in a forms of witchcraft seemed to be aware of, and had many remedies and/or preventions, for many things that we now have scientific explanations for. Just because people weren't necessarily aware of the scientific explanations doesn't mean that they could not have been acutely aware of cause and effect.

In short, I don't find your arguments to be the slightest bit supportive of any divine intervention or knowlege. There are simply too many rational explantions that will suffice.

I also believe that magick is really the only religion with which one can positiveley affect the world through divine means
Like the main tenet of chaos magick says "everyone is a pope"

Everyone’s a pope
pulling on the rope
hoping to instill in us
a little bit of hope

Hoping for eternity
from a goddess of maternity
and praying for an earthly world
of brotherly fraternity

We appeal to special powers
for creating all the flowers
and stand in awe
with an open jaw
as we waste away our hours

Pretending that we have a clue
that substantiates our view
That what we think we thought we knew
must solemnly be true