Here is the issue. IN Washington State and other States like Texas (Yahoo!) women are not afraid to ask men out. Here in California though it is reversed. Men are supposed to make the first move even in a state that fancies itself "SO PROGRESSIVE."

Something a lot of women may not know is that some of us get tired of trying to read signals and body language. Frankly some of us suck at reading human body language. On top of that at least to me women throw more mixed signals than a confused air traffic controller. AND I CAN'T Read minds. I believe what I am talking about is COMMUNICATIONS!

I guess it is because our society is spending so much time being gender conscious that we forget we are all human and likewise two halves of the same coin. I see it as a failure in most LTRs and Marriages where communication breaks down and then it is all down hill from there. And worst is the overcompensation that comes with this "New found realization in society."

But here in the dating world why is it women still don't ask the guys out at least here in California? EVEN BRITISH WOMEN GOT THE GUTS TO ASK FIRST!

Believe me, it would be a very bad thing if I could read minds. Can you say Ultimate Used Car Salesman?

But in closing to my beginning statement for this thread, if more people learned to really communicate with each other this world would be a much better place!

That and,

Damn it ladies, SPEAK UP MORE OFTEN!

it only gets worse my friend. if you ever get the drop on a woman and she lets her guard down long enough for you to get into a relationship, watch out! you will expected to just know what she is thinking at all times. you will be tested on events that happened before, during, and after you met her. any answer you give will be wrong, and not giving an answer will be held against you twenty years later

all this stacked against men, yet we still long for a woman. men sure are dumbazzes. hope you find a woman soon bro

I don't have a problem asking someone out. However, some women will not do it. They think it's the man job. If they think that way, good luck changing their minds.

Then there are some men who refuse to ask women out. They're too shy or too worried about rejection. Those probably aren't the kind of guys I'm going to ask out anyway, as I prefer confidence.

People have to make up their minds if they will change for themselves. I cannot nor will not go out of my way to try. it is so hypocritical for people to say we live int the new millennium and live like they are still in the ideals of the 1800s. I could try an LTR again. But those only work under certain circumstances. I really want to think what I want is not an utter impossibility.


And ESEBULLDOG, A lot of people men and women expect me to read minds but when it comes up in a relationship I remind her not to make assumptions until she had spoken with me! And I remind her I DON'T READ MINDS! How cliche` is it when couples have to dress exactly alike? they pretend like they are in tune but when the whole mind reading thing comes up the Angst is just as hot as any other relationship. How many times were you told, "YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO KNOW..." when you didn't?

I usually like the Guy to make the first move. But when I'm better acquainted and comfortable with my Guy ill make the first move sometimes.

Thats respectable! you don't live within the box!

Sounds like you're a little bitter.

sounds like you're reading too much into this
i guess i'll start putting up a disclaimer on all posts i post that are an attempt at humor

*beep beep beep, this post is a joke, it is really only an attempt at humor. had it been an actual humorous joke, it would have been posted by manO. we now return you to mingle2

Ah, it was a joke? But jokes are supposed to be funny!

How about instead of asking them out ,I just give them a big jolt.Will that work?

"A hungry closed mouth will never get fed."

That's one of my favorite quotes. If I want something, I make it known. Most of the time I get approached first but if I see someone I would like to get to know, I have no problem making the first move. I think it probably has to do with your confidence level on whether you do or don't initiate contact.

When the answer is constantly Yes followed by "can't" that is a burnout. When the answer is a noncomittal 'call me later' with no reply that is a burnout. When you date several times and she makes it clear I Have to be the one spending money on her exclusively, THAT IS NOT ONLY A BIG BURNOUT BUT UTTER BULLSHITTE! I recently got nailed with that one. It is also a burn out when she has things like a "miserable sister" who can't get a date of her own constantly making a girl I go out with change her mind constantly on plans we made two weeks earlier,

I am so at a loss right now how to approach dating. But if she cannot take me seriously enough to at least give me some ground in this mess and do some of the thinking instead of making me come up with all the ideas and me spend all my money just for a kiss on the cheek. So far all I ave gotten was verbal masturbation without the courtesy of a real hand job!

If anything though I have made friends here which is a lot better than nothing but frankly Women on the average to me in MY OPINION are really a lot more messed up and self righteous than they think. it is the not messed up women I am looking for because I am tired of surrounding myself with dysfunctional people. I don't have to misrepresent myself. I am NOT financially successful yet. I struggle every day with that. I am not Mr. Excitement. I am not Mr. Perfect. I am Andy but I sure wore my share of false labels put on me by other people.

So why is it I speak the truth, I don't misrepresent, And this happens a lot and has happened to me in the past, I ask a woman out and suddenly I am a pervert and this is without making any sexual overtones at all to anything! THEREIN LIES MY BIGGEST ISSUE WITH THIS! Prince Charming asks a girl out her panties get wet. I ask the same women out and I get called a pervert and other things and get told I am beneath her?

I think this attitude comes with an issue of self worth, These days after having thought about my current situation a lot if people are not spending a lot of money on me they are not taking me seriously. And more and more people I am surrounded by reinforce this ideal. Hell, the winners seem to be the ones lying through their teeth all the time.

What is worst? A non-committed relationship that is not based on a lie or a committed relationship based on a lie? I just want honesty and people to speak up more often!!! ESPECIALLY WOMEN!

The man should. In fact, men should be in charge of everything!

Things are very different down here in SoCal compared to other places for guys. Experiences vary, but I travel and I do know this to be true.

The farther you get out in the desert, mountains and North Cal the more the women seem to response/act like a guy might find normal in Oregon, Tenn or somewhere like that.

Not all, but most seem to have a handbook in common down here. There are many ways to diffuse this as a guy. I just turned 43 this weekend and I'm kind of burned out on it too Andy. It used to be kind of a game, but not so much anymore. The extra effort, stress and resources to play the game successfully kind of make you want to avoid dating. It shouldn't be that hard ALL the time. You could miss out because you're burned out.

Then a woman walks by that smells awesome or melts the ice in my tea and its starts all over again.

I hear you dude. Wagons East or North or something

Edit: Women do ask once in a while, but in this ADVANCED, Progressive environment we live in it should be more frequent. Other places it seems to be fine, or reasonable to me. Women act like you would expect if they are interested, so they really don't have to act first.

Oh you're a catch

I'm beginning to like this woman!!!!!!

Now.....

while yer up............

thank you

I sure hope this is humor! Us men get blamed for running everything wrong anyways! Why get put in the cross-hairs of a loaded gun huh?


Besides, when men are bad who spanks us?

I have asked men out, and I wouldn't be opposed to doing so again, even though those relationships went downhill, I don't believe all men are the same. Good luck!