Topic: What's the logic behind Revelation 14:1-5 | |
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Revelation 14:1-5,
"Then I looked, and behold, Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, who having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. 3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God". Every time i read the above scripture, Matthew 17:13 comes to my mind, it says " "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it." Matthew tells us to strive to go through the narrow gate that leads to the kingdom of God, unlike the wide gate that leads to hell for those that choose to go through it. When i compare these scriptures, it becomes more clearer to me that God will have a few people enter His Kingdom. In Revelation 14:4, The Bible says that 144,000 thousand people were redeemed from the earth, they were followers of the lamb and they were found to be blameless before the throne of God. When i think about 144,000 people inheriting the Kingdom of God, seriously, i get goose bumps! Or i didn't get that correctly. Do you guys think only 144,000 people will spend eternity with God or it's just a fraction of what Jesus Christ was talking about? |
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You must keep in mind that taking the Bible literally is a school of thought that is about 300 years old and its motivation is not necessary spiritual. Who Are the 144,000 of Revelation 7 and 14? BY WAYNE JACKSON “Who are the 144,000 people mentioned in the book of Revelation, chapters 7 and 14?” The book of Revelation is a highly symbolic treatise (cf. 1:1). Because of this fact, many false religionists have attempted to exploit the message of the narrative to their own theological ends. The Apocalypse has become a happy hunting ground for some religious cultists who seek biblical support for their peculiar doctrines. Twice in this book, mention is made of a group consisting of 144,000. In chapter 7:1ff John heard of 144,000 (12,000 each from twelve different Israelite tribes) servants of God who had been sealed on their foreheads. They were thus obviously redeemed people. Also, the apostle saw a “great multitude, which no man can number” out of every nation. These too were redeemed individuals who had been made white in the Lamb’s blood (v. 14). They had victoriously triumphed over tribulation, and they served God continuously in his temple. Some feel that these two groups are really the same people — just from different angles. Again, in Revelation 14:1ff, John saw the Lamb on Mount Zion. With him were 144,000, sealed with the Father’s name upon their foreheads. This great multitude had been “purchased out of the earth,” and they were said to be the “firstfruits unto God and unto the Lamb.” The “Jehovah’s Witnesses” have almost no concept of the distinction between the literal and the figurative language in the Bible. And so, they literalize the number 144,000 in these two contexts, and ridiculously argue that only 144,000 people will gain heaven. A Watchtower publication states that “the final number of the heavenly church will be 144,000, according to God’s decree” (Let God Be True, p. 113). The balance of saved humanity, they contend, will live on God’s glorified earth. It should be noted that the term “thousand” is used nineteen times in the book of Revelation, but not once is it employed literally in this document. The 144,000 in Revelation 7 There are some minor differences of opinion among reputable Bible scholars as to the identity of the 144,000 in Revelation 7. John T. Hinds argued that the number referred to those who were saved from the physical nation of Israel (112). Others, like J. W. Roberts, felt that this company is spiritual Israel, i.e., the church (71). Some think this group represents the martyrs who have given their lives for the cause of Christ. Be that as it may, it is generally acknowledged that: “The number is obviously symbolic. 12 (the number of the tribes) is both squared and multiplied by 1,000 — a twofold way of emphasizing completeness” (Mounce, 168). We must emphasize the following two points: First, one simply cannot take a symbolic section of scripture and interpret it in such a fashion as to make it contradict other clear, literal portions of the Bible. Second, any doctrine which logically implies an absurdity is false and must be rejected. The Watchtower theory regarding the 144,000 violates both of these principles. Consider the following points. If 144,000 is literal, what about other descriptive terms? If one argues that the 144,000 represents a literal number, he should similarly contend that the group of which that number consists is also literal, i.e., literal Israelites. That would mean, according to the Watchtower scheme of interpretation, that no one would be in heaven who was not of the actual tribes listed. This would also exclude Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob — who were never of the tribes of Israel. And yet, that conflicts with Jesus’ affirmation that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will be in the kingdom of heaven (Mt. 8:11). Are there any Gentiles in the 144,000? If only a literal 144,000 Israelites will enter heaven, then not one Gentile has the hope of the kingdom of heaven. However, the Lord was plainly alluding to Gentiles when he stated that: “many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven” (Mt. 8:11). Are the tribes of Ephraim or Dan included in the 144,000? If the tribes of Revelation 7 are to be literally pressed, not a person from either Ephraim or Dan will enter heaven, for they are excluded from the list. This would mean that Old Testament heroes like Joshua (from Ephraim) and Samson (from Dan) will not be in heaven. The fact is, mention of the “tribe of Joseph” (7:8), which was not a tribe at all in a literal sense, is evidence of the symbolism of this context. What about the “great multitude” and the 144,000? Logically, the Watchtower people must exclude the “great multitude, which no man could number” (7:9) from heaven. This group, they allege, represents the “earthly class.” That is not so. This multitude was described as “standing before the throne” (7:9), which is in heaven (1:4; 4:2-10). Furthermore, these saints “before the throne” were serving God in “his temple” (7:15). Elsewhere John comments that “the temple of God … is in heaven” (11:19). What about the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 14? The 144,000 are mentioned again in Revelation 14:1ff. Once more, however, the numeral is clustered with several other prominent symbols. First, there is the “Lamb,” a figure representing Christ (cf. Jn. 1:29; Rev. 5:6). Second, there is Mount Zion, a symbol of divine government (cf. Isa. 2:2-4). Third, there is the numeral 144,000, suggestive of the heavenly complement of God’s people — no one will be missing who is supposed to be there. Fourth, the saints are depicted as “virgins,” which descriptive emphasizes their purity (cf. 2 Cor. 11:2). Again, though, it must be stressed that if one contends for a literal 144,000, if consistent, he should argue also that a literal Lamb was literally standing on literal Mount Zion with a group of literal men who had never been intimate with literal women, hence, were literal virgins! If a consistent literal scheme of interpretation is pursued, here is the situation that would obtain: Only men will be in heaven, hence, Hannah, Mary, Dorcus, and women of like faith are without that hope. Only unmarried men who are virgins will gain heaven. This would exclude Abraham, Moses, Peter, and a host of other biblical worthies. These conclusions are utterly ludicrous and thus without any merit whatever. Who are the 144,000? The 144,000 of Revelation 14 likely signifies the entire body of the redeemed. This group represents a body of people who were “purchased” from among men. The only purchase price ultimately available for human salvation is that of the blood of Jesus Christ. His blood was effective for the obedient who lived before the cross (Gal. 4:5; Heb. 9:15-17), and for those who have submitted to God’s will since that historic event (1 Pet. 1:18,19; Acts 20:28). Finally, the Bible makes it clear that no one will dwell on a “glorified earth,” for there will be no earth subsequent to the Second Coming of Christ (see Mt. 24:35; 2 Pet. 3:10ff; Rev. 21:1). Also see, Will Heaven Be On Earth?". For further study, see Does the ESV Translation Support Watchtower Doctrine?. Sources/Footnotes Hinds, John T. 1937. Commentary on Revelation. Gospel Advocate: Nashville, TN. Mounce, Robert. 1977. The Book of Revelation. Eerdmans: Grand Rapids, MI. Roberts, J. W. 1974. The Revelation to John. Sweet: Austin, TX. About the Author Wayne Jackson has written for and edited the Christian Courier since its inception in 1965. He has also written several books on a variety of biblical topics including The Bible and Science, Creation, Evolution, and the Age of the Earth, The Bible on Trial, and a number of commentaries. He lives in Stockton, California with his dear wife and life-long partner, Betty. |
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Revelation 14:1-5, "Then I looked, and behold, Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, who having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. 3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God". Every time i read the above scripture, Matthew 17:13 comes to my mind, it says " "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it." Matthew tells us to strive to go through the narrow gate that leads to the kingdom of God, unlike the wide gate that leads to hell for those that choose to go through it. When i compare these scriptures, it becomes more clearer to me that God will have a few people enter His Kingdom. In Revelation 14:4, The Bible says that 144,000 thousand people were redeemed from the earth, they were followers of the lamb and they were found to be blameless before the throne of God. When i think about 144,000 people inheriting the Kingdom of God, seriously, i get goose bumps! Or i didn't get that correctly. Do you guys think only 144,000 people will spend eternity with God or it's just a fraction of what Jesus Christ was talking about? I think it speaks of a SPECIFIC group, just like the 12 disciples the bible seems clear to me that the way to God is through Jesus, which is available to many more than 144000, I believe the 144000 are a certain CHOSEN FEW (male virgins to say the least, making it easier to believe the small number,,lol) but not the TOTAL Number who will go to heaven,,,, |
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Revelation 14:1-5, "Then I looked, and behold, Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, who having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. 3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God". Every time i read the above scripture, Matthew 17:13 comes to my mind, it says " "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it." Matthew tells us to strive to go through the narrow gate that leads to the kingdom of God, unlike the wide gate that leads to hell for those that choose to go through it. When i compare these scriptures, it becomes more clearer to me that God will have a few people enter His Kingdom. In Revelation 14:4, The Bible says that 144,000 thousand people were redeemed from the earth, they were followers of the lamb and they were found to be blameless before the throne of God. When i think about 144,000 people inheriting the Kingdom of God, seriously, i get goose bumps! Or i didn't get that correctly. Do you guys think only 144,000 people will spend eternity with God or it's just a fraction of what Jesus Christ was talking about? I think it speaks of a SPECIFIC group, just like the 12 disciples the bible seems clear to me that the way to God is through Jesus, which is available to many more than 144000, I believe the 144000 are a certain CHOSEN FEW (male virgins to say the least, making it easier to believe the small number,,lol) but not the TOTAL Number who will go to heaven,,,, Yes exactly, that 144000 are a certain group, not the only one that will go to Heaven. One of those verses as followed shows this. 4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. That would mean only virgins went to Heaven, if these 144000 were the only one's that would make it. And if only virgins could make it, that kinda makes one of God's first commandments to us moot as in the following verse. Genesis 1:28 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” Would be hard to fill the Earth if only virgins went to Heaven. The Earth wouldn't get filled, everyone would stay a virgin to obtain the glorious gift of Heaven. |
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Edited by
Jesally
on
Thu 06/14/12 04:05 PM
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Thank you all for your responses!
![]() From you guys i learn that 144,000 is not an exact number but a symbolic number that represents a great multitude of people that will enter the kingdom of God 'coz they accepted Christ as their Saviour & better still, they were saved by being washed in His precious blood. ![]() I know that God wants everyone to be saved, 1Timothy 2:4 says,"...who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth". Also 2Peter 3:9 says,"The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you,not wishing that any should perish,but that all should reach repentence". Therefore i believe that everyone(& not just 144,000) who obey(s) the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved 'coz Hebrews 5:9 says,"And being made perfect,He became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey Him". |
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Edited by
CeriseRose
on
Thu 06/14/12 07:31 PM
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Thank you all for your responses! ![]() From you guys i learn that 144,000 is not an exact number but a symbolic number that represents a great multitude of people that will enter the kingdom of God 'coz they accepted Christ as their Saviour & better still, they were saved by being washed in His precious blood. ![]() I know that God wants everyone to be saved, 1Timothy 2:4 says,"...who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth". Also 2Peter 3:9 says,"The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you,not wishing that any should perish,but that all should reach repentence". Therefore i believe that everyone(& not just 144,000) who obey(s) the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved 'coz Hebrews 5:9 says,"And being made perfect,He became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey Him". Brothers and Sisters...try to keep in mind... Our attitude should always be to trust God's Word. The Entire Bible is always to be taken literally...unless you are skilled in proper hermaneutics. Most scholars agree that the Book of Revelation written by John, is referring to the 12 tribes of Israel. There is no reason to assume the number is anything but exact; 12,000 from each tribe. Nothing is impossible with God... He doesn't need our help to explain away what man can't comprehend. ![]() ![]() CeriseRose He is "Faithful and True" to His Word. Who are the 144,000? http://www.gotquestions.org/144000.html |
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Edited by
CeriseRose
on
Fri 06/15/12 05:17 AM
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Zephaniah 3:9-13 (NIV)
9 “Then I will purify the lips of the peoples, that all of them may call on the name of the LORD and serve him shoulder to shoulder. 10 From beyond the rivers of Cush[a] my worshipers, my scattered people, will bring me offerings. 11 On that day you, Jerusalem, will not be put to shame for all the wrongs you have done to me, because I will remove from you your arrogant boasters. Never again will you be haughty on my holy hill. 12 But I will leave within you the meek and humble. The remnant of Israel will trust in the name of the LORD. 13 They will do no wrong; they will tell no lies. A deceitful tongue will not be found in their mouths. They will eat and lie down and no one will make them afraid.” ." [Zep 3:9-13] ![]() |
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Zephaniah 3:9-13 (NIV) 9 “Then I will purify the lips of the peoples, that all of them may call on the name of the LORD and serve him shoulder to shoulder. 10 From beyond the rivers of Cush[a] my worshipers, my scattered people, will bring me offerings. 11 On that day you, Jerusalem, will not be put to shame for all the wrongs you have done to me, because I will remove from you your arrogant boasters. Never again will you be haughty on my holy hill. 12 But I will leave within you the meek and humble. The remnant of Israel will trust in the name of the LORD. 13 They will do no wrong; they will tell no lies. A deceitful tongue will not be found in their mouths. They will eat and lie down and no one will make them afraid.” ." [Zep 3:9-13] ![]() Glory be to God! |
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