YAH THATS ABOUT RIGHT. Still, i say that if we all stood up and said in a loud voice "Enough fraud", it would be over with. never gonna happen as theres something good on TV.

i agree with you on that rambill and the government knows it too.

q- what do you get when you have 100 white men in a room?
ans- 50 arguments.

See, this thread is a perfect example. The facts, and the law I might add, have been presented in very clear terms with excellent references to the law as it is written in plain English.
Still you pull those blinders tight and either ignore them or excuse them away with bull****!
Pay your dam Taxes and go vote!

Be an American!!!! A ligitimate citizen!!!! A legal citizen!!!!

... those facts you refer too.... how many hours have you spent wading thru law libraries, digging theu the congressional record, ect. REAL RESEARCH... not reading some article on the net which is just reading someone elses research, or disinformation planted by "them"?
you say that i dont vote.. i do vote at the local level, where a person can still affect change. As for taxes, i fought that battle and won. get over it. your being defrauded. what is my patriotic duty when faced with a major fraud being perpetrated on the people?
ever cook lobster? once in a while, one will get the idea that its not all good to hang out with the crowd and will try to get out of the pot. the other lobsters will invariably drag the rebel back in.
i could be a lemming like you... dont take any chances, follow the crowd. ( right over the cliff)
i have put my life and career in jepordy for my beliefs more times than i can count. . i dont expect you to believe as i do but a little respect for me standing up for what i think is right would be nice.

I spend hours doing research, and not on the one sided biased conspiracy web-sites you obviously frequent. I go to the senate records, pentagon records, The Warren Wilson history archives, and the National archives just to name a few. You post crap that not only doesn't make sense, but it obviously tainted with the uninformed. Your over zealous rating of your own intelligence speaks volumes.

Your claims to a tax-free status mean either you are disabled (something you cant help) you have no traceable income to speak of, (maybe still living off mommy or daddy) or you are a criminal! (illegal American(non-citizen)) Sucking up the honest tax-paying Americans resources! Even if you only drive your tractor down to the local farm auction to buy a new pump. If you use a paved road your using tax money. (someone else's) Just because Rambill says it, doesn't make it so!

How does it feel to know you can not own anything in your own name without fear of the IRS confiscating it?
Your own words are your voting record made public. yet everyday we have to hear your uninformed rantings on world and national politics. Voting for your sisters husband Sal when he runs for Rinky-Dink town treasurer is something I guess, but its not much. After all what power does Sal have if the dictator Bush takes away the $300.00 a year he gets to manage for Rinky-Dink!!!

And personally, I dont give a damn if you agree with me or disagree! Honestly, I feel very good about the fact we dont think alike. Whew, Thank god for that......

whatever liberal/ communist. since we live in a free country, who would dare question the status quo? not that its any of your busines, but i made more last winter than you will in three years. next time you go upstairs, say hi to your mommy for me.

fairtax.org

babydoll.... q- why did the biker get married?

ans... he got tired of waiting in line for sex.

Ok - here's another side of the tax picture. the Federal Government was not meant to have the power it now hold over us. It was put into place and meant to support and uphold the Constitution. Sometimes that means amending it, changing it, but it was never meant to dictate or provide. In times of crisis, we expect those we have voted into office to act to the best of their ability in accordance with the constituency who put them in that office. This was the reason these people were voted in to 'serve' in our stead. It is our job to make our opinions, encompassing our moral and ethical beliefs, to those 'PEERS' we gave office to.

It was the job of the states to govern to our needs on a smaller community level. Example: If a state looses, through catastrophe or closure, a company that affects the welfare of thousands in that state, it is up to the state to determine the entitlements that will be handed down. It may be in the form of financial relief or in the form of a paid re-educational/vocations training. Another example, if the farmers of a state, loose an important crop, it is up to the state to determine how best to keep that farmer able and ready to commit to next seasons crop. These should not and were never meant to be controlled by the Federal Government.

But the Fed has taken on so many entitlements that it was never meant to have that it 'requires' exorbitant amounts of money reqested in the form in Income tax.

This tas was first put into place, 'temporarily' during the Civil war, to fund that war, it was suppose to have been repealed, - well there's a whole story there. It was the SS Tax that began a snowball that is rolling to this day.

If any would like to argue the entitlements that your tax dollars pay for, I would be a willing participant. This, topic, however, is more direct in nature.

If we SCREAMED loud enough, and stopped the abuse of the Fed and stopped the entitlements that have no business being governed by the Fed, and if (I'm laughing), just if, we took control of what we paid and the benefits of those in office, an income tax, based of it's original format, would be enough. For that income tax, NEVER included a tax on money exchanged for labor. "Income" tax was a percentage owed for product exchanged for money, or investment that yielded a profit. It would be businesses and the wealthy investors who would be paying the vast majority of Federal Income tax - as it was meant to be.

NOW, before you cry about the loss of those entitlements, that is where your state government comes into play. You pay state taxes based on those entitlements you voted on within your state that would benefit the people within your state the most.

Live in particularly wealthy state and you will find many entitlements and luxuries, live in a predominantly lower class state, and the entitlements will be geared more toward the benefit of those who need better health care, or educational expenses and such.

It is up to the government of the states to make their state one in which better living conditions will draw others to it. So that more taxes can be paid and more benefits doled out.

If this were what was happening, the majority of our tax dollars would be going our state, to our smaller communities. Those taxes, the state taxes, would come from the taxes on homes, the taxes for purchases, whatever taxes the state can have voted into their law.

I'm not opposed to paying taxes. I am opposed to the power this government has taken, over the states, over the individual, by utilizing this illegal taxation. It is not their place to do so, it is unconstitutional. Only the states were meant to have this power, and only with regard to their own state, and only with the majority vote of those within that state.

The way taxes are assessed and collected by the Federal government is in direct conflict with our constitution, and because of this, the Fed has taken the decision of a state to run according to that community in accordance with their wishes.

We need to get back on track, or every President from now on, will have the power to continue in Bush's steps and worse.

I'd like to see every president follow bush's example and keep cutting our taxes Also your statement "It would be businesses and the wealthy investors who would be paying the vast majority of Federal Income tax - as it was meant to be."...it is that way...the wealthiest 15% pay 80% of the tax revenue...but regardless..our taxes are way to excessive, the SS and medicare tax rate alone is higher then the average total income tax rate of the early 60's.

When it comes to Social Security and Medicare, the federal government simply won’t be able to keep its promises in the future. That is the reality every American should get used to, despite the grand promises of Washington reformers. Our entitlement system can’t be reformed – it’s too late. And the Medicare prescription drug bill is the final nail in the coffin.
The financial impact of the drug bill cannot be overstated. Government projections that the program would cost $400 billion over the next decade were a joke, as everyone in Congress knew even as they voted for the bill. The real cost will be at least $1 trillion in the first decade alone, and much more in following decades as the American population grows older.
The Medicare “trust fund” is already badly in the red, and the only solution will be a dramatic increase in payroll taxes for younger workers. The National Taxpayers Union reports that Medicare will consume nearly 40% of the nation’s GDP after several decades

because of the new drug benefit. That’s not 40% of federal revenues, or 40% of federal spending, but rather 40% of the nation’s entire private sector output!
The politicians who get reelected by passing such incredibly shortsighted legislation will never have to answer to future generations saddled with huge federal deficits. Those generations are the real victims, as they cannot object to the debts being incurred today in their names.
The official national debt figure, now approaching $9 trillion, reflects only what the federal government owes in current debts on money already borrowed. It does not reflect what the federal government has promised to pay millions of Americans in entitlement benefits down the road. Those future obligations put our real debt figure at roughly fifty trillion dollars – a staggering sum that is about as large as the total household net worth of the entire United States. Your share of this fifty trillion amounts to about $175,000.
Don’t believe for a second that we can grow our way out of the problem through a prosperous economy that yields higher future tax revenues. If present trends continue, by 2040 the entire federal budget will be consumed by Social Security and Medicare alone. The only options for balancing the budget would be cutting total federal spending by about 60%, or doubling federal taxes. To close the long-term entitlement gap, the U.S. economy would have to grow by double digits every year for the next 75 years.
The answer to these critical financial realities is simple, but not easy: We must rethink the very role of government in our society. Anything less, any tinkering or “reform,” won’t cut it. A good start would be for Congress to repeal the Medicare prescription drug bill.
March 6, 2007
Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.


Serchin - Please, where did your figures come from, that 15% of the people pay 80% of the tax revenue? I would like to see who these people are, because I would be willing to bet that most of them are not paying taxes based on a labor for pay basis.

Red..I will find the more recent data...but this is from 2003...and explains the figures...they use slightly different percentages...but if you are good in math...you will see it adds up...also because it is progressive (as they explain)..those percentages keep moving in the direction I speak of..comparing 2000 to 2003..so now in 2007 it will be closer to what I was saying...I will find them for you..but here it is..hope this helps

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110002937

Thanks Search - I'll check it out, appreciate you looking for me.

Just so you know, trying to find anything with regard to the Fed. Gov. figures beyond 2003 is very difficult. I've spent a lot of research time tying.

The right to impose taxes on income and property have always been contained in the constitution. Article 8,(I believe) gives this authority to the Fed Gov..
It has only been clarified in the amendment, because of a court battle and the inability of people to comprehend English, and their want to twist the English language to fit their ideas.

If the tax is spent without abuse, I do not mind paying it, and I feel the majority of Americans feel the same. It really is just a few that do not want to pay, and at some point or another they gladly use the facilities or infrastructure thes taxes pay for. Many times I hear them complain because a service is not offered or available that would have to be payed for with tax money.
So quit gripeing and pay your taxes. Then complain, like I do, about the money being abused. Remember though, if you dont pay taxes, then STFU!!!

^^

http://www.johntp.com/wp-content/uploads/stopposting.jpg

I repeat,

This thread is a perfect example. The facts, and the law I might add, have been presented in very clear terms with excellent references to the law as it is written in plain English.
Still you pull those blinders tight and either ignore them or excuse them away with bull****!
Pay your dam Taxes and go vote!

Be an American!!!! A ligitimate citizen!!!! A legal citizen!!!!

^^

http://www.johntp.com/wp-content/uploads/stopposting.jpg

those "few" that dont pay taxes actually are about 20 million in number.