The concept that mankind thinks in terms of what he or she can know or define. This means that humans don't generally think in terms of varying degrees of wet or dry unless they have learned or realized the ability to do so. The other way is child like people who have not learned the things that require them to define their reality or by unlearning these set patters to realize that a desk is not just a desk but everything it is made of or used for.

Thats to wet your curiosity for the discussion. At this point you can stop reading if this has become too much or does not interest you.

A better understanding of Non-duality in its complexity can be found at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondualism

Non-duality is a recent coined term and yet exists in many schools of thought. The larger part is that most human perception with regards to human physical senses are flawed. For example, blind men that encounter an elephant and argue endlessly about what it is based on their experiences.

As for non-physical senses, debate could abjectly ensue. The question is if one has not realized or learned such, could they be only their experience? Or is non-duality only another experience therby proving it as a different model?

Implications anyone?

I'm familiar with the concept of nonduality from Zen, although it's not called that there, because in Zen you don't want to name things. Is this what you're talking about? It's an interesting concept but I have yet to decide whether I believe it or not. Which is nondualism, maybe.

Zen has a strong non-dual tradition. So yes!!

I generally prefer the concept of intention instead of belief, but that is from my buddhist/taoist background. Sometimes we can try to believe something but our fears and other emotions we feel can sometimes cloud our reality. They become subconscious shadows that can wreak havok on something if we have trouble believing it. In the end the over powering feelings create the subconscious intention that something is wrong which in reality comes from intention.

What does that mean? Maybe some parts of what we believe we do so for a reason that cannot be comprehended or we are in someways for ever a product of experiences we cannot overcome?

...hmm maybe I should have a beer.

Well it seems to me that we are ALWAYS products of experiences we can't overcome, or at least can't pretend don't exist. The wisest find ways to integrate those experiences into what is called personal growth. I'm not sure where intention fits into all of this, and I'm especially not sure I think of intention the same way you are. How is intention different from intent? or from will?

it seems to me that one cannot define something they know nothing about, like dimensions. things in the 2nd dimension could never explain the 3rd, because they would know no reference about it.

This is something I understand from my experience. However since other peoples experiences could be different based upon what they believe there is much room for complacentcy on all parts of the spectrum.

Lets venture into the realm of meditation so to speak. Meditation can take many different forms according to Taoist scholar Eva Wong. It should be no suprise that Taoism borrowed from the buddists. In fact I personally know of a priest that had seals of so and so deity proving they were originally buddhist. It may seem like I am getting off track here but my point is that many forms of meditation have things in common or can be grouped together. If you focus on developing will or willpower through seeing how others react to this training you can become insensitive and cold if that is the only spiritual focus. If I were to convert it to more mundane examples I could with scientific reductionism say that by focusing on accomplishing a task without empathy for people around oneself is a symptom of such type of will-only training. If one were to focus only on will in the mundane sense then one could also mirror that perspective when going about daily activities. However it makes for a less empathetic person. I am also aware ofmeditations that can cause people to become unbalanced the same way.
So in conclusion in a reductive sense we could say only focusing on will can lead to the aformentioned behaviour. However most meditations dont focus on it only, thankfully so.

Intent I understand is usually taken to mean different things. One that has developed a lot of anger could either through willful intent or through undeveloped rapidly moving energy unknowingly direct ill intent at another. Other forms of intent are done in meditations or chi'kung. When you swing a golf club your intent is to drive the ball in the hole or on the green. When target practicing the intent is to hit the target. Intent also takes other forms like intent to watch for cars when crossing a busy intersection.

Intention and intent are made of many things, it would be so easy for me to scientifically reduce the subject and say that an emotionally balanced person would have the keenest calmest intent through overcoming obstacles and not letting things bother them. The more things bother us the more they threaten our health and well being. Do you know anyone who rails on everything they dont like?

The alternative would be to discuss emotions and the different effects on physiology. But I grow impatient that I have made this post so long.

Am I right to guess you were talking about weak will being the cause of faulty intent? Or the case where someone loosly intended to do something right but did not due to being unaware of circumstances? Such things tend to glide on the edge of belief. Darn that positive or revrse ad hoc fallacy. :D

According to the great philosophers it belongs to the realm of what can only be felt. As the mind constantly plays for control it fights what it does not understand. That is why even Jesus' teachings more based upon emotion are not completely followed because such teachings are beyond the mind.

As a side point string theory is more aptly used when speaking of the concept of nonduality rather than dimensions.

One dimesional and two dimensional models are only abstractions in a topologists mind. Real dimensions are measured and a function of the following things by Nasa: Magnetic fields dissappear or diminish with the absence of matter or existence of matter to varying parts of the universe. Increasing inductive fields leads to shifting into higher dimensions where photons of light travel faster and make faster than light travel possible.

Demosthenes once showed that anything could be disproven with words.

In mathematics we developed ways of dealing with abstract concepts that exist in the universe aside or even in conjunction with concrete numbers.

Really this could change how people see things but greed is stronger! So is unawareness and stubborness.

Well, I've thought and studied a lot about these topics, but I'm still not at all sure I understand where you're going with it. No, I wasn't trying to make any point about weakness of will. I was trying to separate out definitions. You did point out all the negative connotations of the word "will," which I'm aware of and did make me hesitate to bring it up. If you're thinking of will as negative and intent or intention as its positive manifestation, I can accept that. I pretty much agree with your Demosthenes quote, which is why I tend to opt out of many of the more nitpicking arguments on here. Do I know anyone who rails about everything they don't like??? Haha, do I know anybody who doesn't, is more the question. I often wish that people would just honestly TRY to be accepting and nonjudgmental for even one week. I think they would be astonished at the reduction in their level of stress. But maybe that value system has to be in place before you can succeed at it, I don't know.

If someone "loosely intends" to do something, then I think they are setting themselves up for failure. In my experience, successful action requires a focused intent.

It's interesting that you mentioned meditation causing people to become unbalanced. I've had some in-depth conversations with a Zen priest friend who brought up exactly this subject. It hadn't occurred to me before, but then I've never made meditation a way of life.

In my book, greed, stubbornness, etc., are forms of ignorance--ignorance about what it is that truly makes us happy. Ignorance about what happiness really is.

I couldnt have said it better myself. Plus I forgot about speaking of things that way I did. I should have focused on the positive.

But yeah things like thunder magic, varjisattva stuff, some tibetan can... yeah.

Its my understanding Metta is supposed to mitigate that.

Yeah i was getting tired and realized now how i sounded. Yuck.