I am just weeping at how blinded you are.

Nothing more foolish than some foolish person out on a

MISSION to TEACH born again belieivers that the

bible contains ERRORS ....


how the enemy deceives.....


please don;t post anymore..it is just too sad to look at...

How condescending, thank you sooo much.



I can back up my position with direct quotes.

You need to obfuscate the truth to support yours.


Weep for yourself, because whatever you've been attempting has NOT clouded my judgment as to believe your lie.


The Bible is NOT infallible, your "requirements" for salvation ARE doctrines of men. The Bible even predicts that they will be secretly introduced...


Read it for yourself!

And for the record...


I'm not trying to teach "born again" believers anything. I'm simply correcting your obvious errors so as not to scare away the heathens...

Only God can help you see.


I will pray and will say no more.

Take care now.

Don't forget...



Matthew 5:22
King James Version (KJV)

22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.



I bet you wish hell weren't real if the Bible is infallible...

I can't believe I missed this obvious error.


You may want to re-examine which verse talks about the lying pens and pay close attention to whether or not it was in the NT (The Jews of Jesus’ day)...


Simple error or purposeful deceit?

this Non-believing Heathen has to agree with MorningSong, because what she is trying to convey is exactly what is taking place right now in this forum with the commandment "Thou Shalt Not Kill" or "Thou Shalt Not Murder"

in whichever form one choose to claim the commandment states whether not to Kill or not to Murder ...it still would not change the meaning of God's word ...which is to not seek reasons to take a life, or refrain from taking a life, or do everything in ones power to not take a life ..that the message is clear no matter which translation one choose to use

also I wouldn't say that there are errors or mis-translations in the bible because that would be a lack of Faith in God ....but the bible does warn of the false prophet or those that will try to mis-translate God's Word as in preaching a false gospel but I think what MorningSong is trying to say is that only those that know the Word of God will be able to see through this

LOL, funches got lost 'cause he's actually supporting my position opposed to "infallibility"...

Peter_Pan...I have no problem supporting anyone's position if I agree with them even you...but unfortunately this is not one of those times that I agree with you ...it's just one of those times that you are having delusions that I do ...

I as a non-believer has never disputed that the bible/Torah was not literally The True Word of God....as a beliver neither should you

Logic says: Since men (scribes) actually wrote the Bible, and men are not perfect the Bible is not infallible. God did not possess the writers of the Bible and the Bible is not a channeled work. It is claimed to be "inspired" not channeled. This means that those who wrote it put some of themselves into it.

People who believe the Bible is infallible also believe the Bible is God's word. They are like someone who is in love, who cannot see the errors and imperfections of their love interest.

In order to look at someone imperfect and view them as perfect, you first have to be in love with them. That is why they say that love is blind. It does not have a critical eye. All alleged imperfections are glossed over with faith. Faith is trust that the meaning, even if you do not see it, it pure. Faith tells you that any misunderstanding of that perfect thing or person is a failure on your part, not theirs.

Real love in unconditional. If a person loves God unconditionally, and believes that the Bible is God's word, that person cannot see error in it.

In fact to them, anyone who does see error in it is regarded as a person who does not love God unconditionally, so it is they who are in error.

So who is really blind when both parties think the other is blind? Who is right and who is wrong?

They are both right.

I know its a paradox. .....

Lie and twist and squirm all ya want. Your bolded words above support me.


Now stop murdering logic.

Now we got you defining love and the requirements of it???


This is my reality and neither you nor she tells me what I feel and believe.

well the thread is about "the right to believe"

JennieBean...you left Faith out of the equation ....Faith means that everything in the bible is exactly how God transcribed it

Yes Funches... many will MISINTERPRET

AND MISTRANSLATE God's Word and preach a FALSE GOSPEL.....and

the only way to be able to detect this and not be deceived

by it , is to be Indwelt by the Holy Spirit( Who indwells all

believers when they become born again) , Who will also let

believers KNOW All Truth.... by teaching, leading and guiding

them into All Truth ...


"Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice and the voice of a

stranger they will not follow."

The actual words that certain scribes had penned

(in that one scripture Peter_Pan keeps referring to) was NOT

put IN the bible at all....


that one bible scripture mentioned, was just telling OF what

the scribes had done...


God did not put lies in the bible....

God's Word cannot contain a lie and still be called the Word of God.

God and a lie do not mix....just as God and sin do not mix....

God is a Holy God...

The only one calling it the "Word of God" is you.

Show us where the Bible makes that claim.



Man lied, not GOD! Stop misrepresenting what I say.

.........God's Infallible Word



God Himself attests to His Word being perfect:

2 Peter 1:20-21 "Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."


The Holy Spirit cannot provide an imperfect revelation. Those who regard the Bible as error-prone are blaspheming against the Holy Spirit, the Scripture's Author.


2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness."


Note that the word "all" is used. "All Scripture is God-breathed. . ." Yet mortals would breathe upon the Bible to disregard what they don't like and keep what they do like. That is the height of hubris and will answer at the Judgment Seat of Christ.


Proverbs 30:5-6 "Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar."


Note the words "every word" are used. "Every word of God is flawless. . ."


John 12:47-50 "As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."


Note: ". . .whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say." The Father cannot be mistaken, though some mortals claim Him to be in His ability to communication divine revelation.


Hebrews 4:12 "For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart."


Note that ". . .the word of God. . .judges the thoughts. . ." Those discounting the divine revelation set forth in the Scriptures will regret the moment they ever started on that course.


Jeremiah 23:29 "'Is not My word like fire?' declares the LORD, 'and like a hammer which shatters a rock?'"


John 12:48 "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.


Rejecting the inerrant Word of God will convict the rebellious one at the Judgment Seat of Christ.


Psalms 12:6: ". . .the words of the LORD are flawless."


Can God speak more clearly than that?


Psalms 119:89: "Your word, O LORD, is eternal, it stands firm."


Dare one earthly mortal contest the eternal truth of divine revelation?


Matthew 5:18: "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."


Christ is most efficient in His overview of the divine inspiration. ". . .one jot or one tittle. . ."


John 10:35: "...and the scripture cannot be broken."


Those who break the Word of God will be broken by it at the Last Day.

Revelation 22:18-19 "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book."


What applies to this divine revelation by extrapolation applies to any divine revelation throughout the Word of God.


What about the severe passages in the Old Testament?


In the Old Testament, God commanded the death penalty in twenty-some cases. This was not because God was barbaric, but because God was civil. The Israeli twelve tribes had no law enforcement agencies. Further, they were surrounded by barbarisms of strange magnitudes exhibited by neighboring pagan nations.


Consequently, for God to establish an Israeli civil community, He set forth stringent punishments — some being the death penalty. He Himself became, in other words, the Law Enforcement Agency for the new nation of Israel. That chosen community thereby was to model morality / civility to the surrounding nations.


Extremely severe penalties then were commanded by God in order to bring in line an Israeli community which tended to be unruly like its neighbors. If God had been lax in penalties, human nature, being what it is, would have tested gladly the boundaries. But when penalties were severe, human nature thought twice before testing the boundaries, hence the death penalty prescribed by God in some instances.


However, once Israel lost its nationhood by "going a-whoring after other loves," Israel's civil structure disappeared. Israel as a nation lost its temple, its government — that is, its two primary components of culture — religion and politics. Pagan nations then ruled over the heretofore nation of God. In this loss was the disappearance of death penalties previously prescribed by God. The death penalty period as dictated by divine revelation, in other words, ended near the close of the Old Testament era.


That is why when Jesus appeared as flesh-and-bones divine revelation, He pronounced, "You used to say, 'An eye for an eye,' but now I say to you: Love your enemies." Jesus pronounced a civility of love toward one's enemies. "Love your foes, pray for your foes." This was the New Testament for it was now a new way of dealing with others — all others.


Government was now established primarily within the believer rather than under Israeli kings. "The Kingdom of God is within you." Law was now primarily of the heart. "My law will be written on your hearts." That was the new politic. Further, the tabernacle was now primarily the human frame: "Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit." That was the new religion.


Therefore, for the New Testament Church Age, it is the law of love toward all — friends and foes. Jesus provided a simply stated ethic. He refused to garble it with amendments. But, one may ask: "What about these atrocious crimes and the death penalty?"


The biblical answer is still the same: love your friends and foes in Jesus. What kind of Christian love then can be shown to a multiple-murderer / rapist / arsonist / child molester? What kind of Christian love can be meted out to a Hitler?


It is a Christian tough love. Tough love keeps the exceptional criminal alive but consigns that one to supervised environs without parole. Hopefully, even that exceptional criminal then may come upon redemption through Christ, yet never be placed in tempting circumstances whereby he again may do others and Himself harm.


Keeping the individual alive also allows the possibility that, realizing human justice systems to be flawed, that person in truth may be found innocent though originally pronounced guilty. Indeed, the future may prove this to be fact if new evidence is forthcoming. History has case files on those in the aforementioned category.


Reason this moral / ethical situation from God's perspective: Adam and Eve slew God's love when they played loose with Eden's snake. However, God did not slay them. Instead, God banished them to their own solitary isles of remorse, hoping at least for their eternal redemption.


You once slew God's love by going your own stubborn way. In reality, you pronounced yourself Lord of your life. It is a hurtful truth to you now that you are a believer; nevertheless, living once in sin and for sin, you were once that callused toward your own loving Creator. However, did God obliterate you? No, instead God searched you out, loved you even while you were enemy, in hopes of redeeming what was left of your destiny.


He now invites each Christian to live out that same kind of persevering, at-times-tough love toward all others — especially those who are Enemy. God has already walked for us the path of love-for-foes. We, of all creatures, should know this for sure. Praise be to a loving, merciful God!


He then invites us to join Him on that love path. He has walked it for us. He asks us now to walk it for others.


FOOTNOTE: JUDGMENT DAY


Hebrews 9:27:


It is appointed unto men once to die, but after that the judgment.


Matthew 7:21-23: the words of Christ:


Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Matthew 12:36-37: the words of Christ:


But I say unto you that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.


Romans 2:6-11:


God who will render to every man according to his deed: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immorality, eternal life; But unto them that are contentious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honor and peace to every man that worked good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.


Romans 14:10-12:


For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.


I Corinthians 4:5:


Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsel of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.


II Corinthians 5:10:


For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.


Numbers 32:23:


Be sure your sin will find you out.

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/swank/100221

LOL! Your threats don't bother me.


The Bible says that heresies will be secretly introduced.


2 Peter 2:1-4
New International Version (NIV)

2 Peter 2
False Teachers and Their Destruction
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,[a] putting them in chains of darkness[.b] to be held for judgment;

Footnotes:
a.2 Peter 2:4 Greek Tartarus
b.2 Peter 2:4 Some manuscripts in gloomy dungeons



You must convince me that Tatarus isn't a Greek myth.

Otherwise you are teaching false doctrines, PERIOD!


The "Word of God" does not contain Pagan myths.



15
King James Version (KJV)

15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.


You may continue to believe every word, I'll use my God-given gifts to discern the truth.



I'm screaming this information out loud, nothing secret here...

Peter_Pan...if you are going to claim that Man lied pertaining to the bible/torah...then that would mean that nothing in those scriptures can be trusted ....

perhaps God was actually the fallen angel and Satan was actually the creator but the authors lied and claim that Satan was the angel and God the creator

this is why a believer should not be claiming that the bible has errors or depection within it...a believer is supposed to have Faith that God would not allow such teachery and debauchery