Sin and sorrow said:



This is not necessarily true.

It depends on what your idea of the will is. If you think the will is simply the ability to make any decision, it could be true. People and even animals make decisions every moment of every day.

But the will is not simply making a decision because most decisions are made automatically and according to our natural instinct or programming.

The will is always "free" so to put the word "free" in front of it is redundant because it implies that there is a condition where the will is not free.

The will is free but you don't have to use it. You can follow your natural programming and react to stimuli according to DNA and other conditions.

It is only when you become more conscious that you begin to use your will. The will is the power to direct your attention and thoughts AGAINST natural programming and instinct and only according to what you decide.

The will is assertive. That is why when a person addicted to drugs stops taking drugs against the body's addicted cravings he is said to have "will power."

The will swims against the current instead of drifting to where the river is taking him or her.

In looking at the will this way, you might say that it is going against your own natural animal instincts or even going against "God."

RELIGIONS (Christianity) try to teach that we should obey obey obey "God." And yet they reluctantly (it seems) admit that we have a thing called "Free will." But they will usually boil it down to the making of a choice to obey and accept and believe in God (according to their idea or their book) or not obey and accept and believe in God.

If you do not obey and accept and believe in God you are doomed to die; but you are promised eternal life if you do obey and accept and believe in God.

Therefore the will to disobey as Adam and Eve did, is your temptation. To seek freedom and individuality and independence from servitude and obedience to God is a sin.

Therefore "free will" becomes the apple of disobedience in Christianity. They smile and admit that we have been given "free will" and they pray that we make the "right" choice because if we don't..... we are doomed.

Christians can't believe that a person would not choose to serve God and obey and have eternal life. But the problem is religion. Organized religions have taken over the position of God and they have listed their rules and they have declared that the Bible is the "word of God" to be obeyed. Organized religion holds the power over the people, or at least tries to.

And they distort the truth, and they don't really know God at all. Organized religion does not like "free will." They preach obedience and servitude and only the will of God has any merit. They don't really want people to have or use their free will.

It seems to me, that if a God wanted everyone to obey, he would not have granted or "given" anyone a will of their own. We would all be robots forced to follow programming.

But we do develop a will of our own as we gain more consciousness. That is according to plan! Therefore that we discover and use our own will is according to purpose.

It is not because "God wants us to choose him" that he designed "free will." The will of consciousness is the purpose of life as the intelligence of the universe manifests living bodies and creatures. It (God) is manifesting its own body. The human body and the human consciousness is an expression of the divine creative intelligence that is God.

Free will is choice, period. No if's an's or but's about it. Free will means you can make a choice. The reaction and or consequence of the action has no merit on weather it's free will or not, for you still had the choice.

You have the choice to obey God, or not. You are not an automatically programmed robot or puppet on a string. YOU choose, no one else.

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/free_will.html

A man’s volition is outside the power of other men. What the unalterable basic constituents are to nature, the attribute of a volitional consciousness is to the entity “man.” Nothing can force a man to think. Others may offer him incentives or impediments, rewards or punishments, they may destroy his brain by drugs or by the blow of a club, but they cannot order his mind to function: this is in his exclusive, sovereign power. Man is neither to be obeyed nor to be commanded.

so basically the only two Choices you have are,you either live in Hell here on Earth,or live in Hell in the Hereafter?

Automaton much?

No, you have choice of action. No one lives in hell but Satan. People may think they are living in hell on Earth, but that all boils down to perception and brings to mind the "if you're not happy, lower your standards".

If you want all the riches in the world and are unhappy that you do not have it, you will be living in "hell" by your perception.

If you allow what you do not have to influence how your life is, is by your own choice.

If you stay focused on what you do have and the blessings that have been brought upon you instead of dwelling on the bad things in life, that is by your own choice.

The idea of obeying God makes no sense because God is not here barking out orders.

There is no God to obey.

There are only other men who lay claim to what THEY THINK God wants and what they think God's commands are.

Again, there is no God here ruling this earth giving orders. There is only the Bible that some claim is God's word.

There is no proof of that.

Therefore, if religion and belief are all faith based, then there is no way to know what God commands or how to obey God.

We are basically on our own and must decide what is right or wrong.

I disagree. (WITH THE BOLD) We have the consciousness to think for ourselves. We don't need a boss to obey. WE ARE FREE. Our souls are free.

The will is a conscious decision to direct your own life. It is not simply a choice. Most choices you make throughout your day are unconscious choices. When you make a conscious choice, you are using your will.

The will is always conscious. We live most of or lives reacting and responding to natural stimuli that is programmed within our makeup. That is, we don't really THINK about what we are doing or the choices we are making.

The WILL IS ALWAYS and naturally FREE. It is not a "gift." It is earned by becoming conscious. When we as creatures become more and more conscious, we manifest our ability to think and use our will.

There is no entity living and ruling us giving us commands and asking us to obey. There is only consciousness.

It is not a choice to "obey" God or not. That is ridiculous. We are designed and have evolved with the ability to THINK AND REASON AND BE CONSCIOUS.

We are not robots because and only because have evolved to have more consciousness.

I 100% agree with this.

If people would spend more time searching for God's will in their OWN life rather than trying to decide God's will in everyone else's life, we would all be much better off.

I happen to really like movies about whales........

I don't. And, I'm offended that you do.

Exactly. There will come a time when you feel at one with God or at one with the universe and you will realize "God's will" and yours are one and the same.

That is where you experience faith, even in things and events you do not understand.

Everything is as it should be according to the law.

I just want to clarify my statement. I am not against religion or religious traditions. I love both and think they are important, even necessary, in our lives. What I am against is those who use religion to hurt and control others. And that is done often and repeatedly.

Since "free will" in a Christian religion environment doesn't exist.

It cannot be a sin in that sense because the only free will that exists is outside of a religion.

People in a Christian environment do seem to (reluctantly) agree that we have (or have been given) "free will," but "free will" seems to be in direct conflict with the idea that people should be obedient to God, and submit to God's will only, giving up their own. They suggest that our personal will is not to be used and if we do, then we are going against God. (How free is that?)

It also assumes that we are not aligned with God and that our personal will is in conflict with God. That is a wrong assumption.

When they do admit that we have free will, they will always remind you that if you do choose to disobey God (or not be obedient, or not believe) that you will not receive eternal life and that you will die or even go to hell.

That is not free choice. That is an ultimatum.

The will is naturally and always free. It is not a gift, it is a responsibility. One must be more conscious to make use of it.

Animal instinct runs on biological programming. Some animals can make more conscious decisions and animals do have different personalities.

The more conscious you are, the more you are able to utilize your will.

That's interesting, I've never met a Christian who didn't believe in free will. Even Calvinists believe in free will. What Christians don't believe or are reluctant to believe in free will?

Deciding to obey God, is an exercise of free will, is it not? At every moment you would have to continue to decide to obey God, thus obeying God is a constant exercise of your free will.

Exactly

We have to define first 'free will'

Here you talk abt religious meaning of free will .
If you go deeper in theology you gonna see that the idea of
free will is not to obey to God but to make your choice - the light side and to follow God or to choose the dark side of Satan and his demonic army.

Latter the church institution changed and distorted the idea of it asking obey.They preach obedience and servitude not because of God but because to spread fears in the name of God and to make sure that church will be predominated forever through that fears of ppl hence to have power, control and riches.

Choice, simple as that. We are not automatically programmed to do certain things, we are not puppets on a string.

Free will goes further then just choosing who to worship. Free will goes as far as what you want to eat for dinner.

The scriptures give no power or riches to anyone.