"one nation under God" is the pledge. So therefore you have a problem with the pledge and wish for it to be altered. If you had no problem with the pledge, there would be no reason to alter it.

They don't do so when testifying in a courtroom.
I don't remember seeing the President do it, so I don't know about that,
but I'm sure if they do, it would only be a president who claimed to
be a Christian. (Which most are.)




I'm not sure I understand your question.

BUT it would be pointless for an atheist to swear on the Bible, but for a Christian who feared the wrath of God, it might convince someone that they are serious.

I never said I personally had a problem with the pledge.

Still stand beside my "one nation under God" not being unconstitutional. But the pledge of allegiance I do have a problem with. We are told not to swear by anything. So even the president or any court stuff swearing by the bible is actually unscriptual.


James 5:12


12But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

I am simply arguing that it is improper to conduct PUBLIC pledges in PUBLIC GROUPS and classes to a flag under a God.

It may not be a flag they want to pledge to, and they may not believe in any God....

The person conducting the pledge MUST KNOW EVERYONE in the room and know that they believe in God and want and have agreed to pledge to the flag.

Then I see no problem with it.

But we live in such a diverse country, a large crowd cannot be known that well. Hence it would be inappropriate to assume.

My apologies. I tend not to notice or really pay attention to specifically who said what or when while discussing. Only reply to the posts.

"Raise your right hand and repeat after me."

"I (name) do solemnly swear that I will tell you truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth; so help me God."

If you've ever testified in court..
That is what they make you do. I've done it three times.

Your hand is resting on the bible while you say those words.



Yes, I believe it is during his Inauguration. He places his hand, much like court, and does the "so help me God." thing.

And I know not Barack's standing, but he did it to.

For your viewing pleasure:





As true as that is, that would also be stating that half of the president this country has had, would be atheists or fake Christians. They all swore upon the Bible, and lied, in some form, while in office. Breaking their oaths, what have you.

I guess they do it, because no politician is ever going to say open and publicly, 'I am an atheist', so I guess I just kind of answered my own question, lol. :D

I see what you are saying.

A pledge to a flag is like worshiping a flag or pledging to the authority of a country and its leadership (corrupt or not) and that might get in the way of actually doing what is right and humane at some point.

Yes, exactly. God wants us to be in allegiance with him. Being in allegiance with a country or other would be more or less say you obey the country or whatever before anything else, this would include God as well.

Mista Clinton :D



..bit harder to see, but like before, Hillary is holding it.

You mean she's gotta pea? >.> lol gotta love some humour now and again.

Sin_and_Sorrow,

I have testified in court and before a grand jury and I was never asked to swear on a Bible or swear to God.

They simply asked:

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

They never said "...so help you God."

So I guess it depends on the court.

As for the book under Barack's hand.... it could be a dictionary.

..that's why it is unconstitutional. You are not to associate God with the leadership of a country. "God is to play not part in that", as they've said.

So, which is what I remain confused about; is why they swear into office and in courtrooms, on that same Bible that is to play 'no part'?

What if you ARE a devout Christian, you swear in UNDER oath into the office of President. You are now faced with a crisis in which you must make a decision which is AGAINST your faith, but it is in the better interest of the nation as a whole?

Face damnation in Gods eye.
Face condemnation in the Nations eye.

If you are a devout Christian, you swear by NOTHING. Not by God, not by anything. So the presidents swearing is actually unscriptual on two accounts. One they are swearing in general, and then they are swearing on the bible which would then be symbolically swearing by Heaven.

James 5:12


12But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

Good points Cowboy.

I wouldn't want to associate God with the leadership of a country either.

But its been done throughout history.

Even in the Bible. That's why I don't believe in the Bible.

lol

There was that huge debate on him being Muslim remember?

Google it, there's still frames of his hand actually moving to the bible before being placed on it, lmao. There's even pictures of the Bible while his wife was carrying. o.o

Oh, yeah, and his hand on the Bible was even on the cover of Times Magazine.

..as for your trip to court.

Maybe it varies by state?

I had to say it several times.

They even do it on Judge Judy.
Well, did, I don't watch that show anymore.

Heck, for all I know, maybe they removed it from courtrooms now too. :O

..and soon, Mr. Lincoln will be yelling...

I ain't arguing that Cowboy..

I'm simply curious as to WHY it happens..
..why that is such a persecuted event, in school, to say it in the allegiance, but each president swears on it before taking office.

Makes no sense?

I know why it's blah blah in the eyes of God; not what I'm asking. My question, literally, has nothing to do with God's stance. It's ours.

I think it has been removed from courtrooms.
Maybe in the deep deep south they still do it.
Maybe in those tiny hill-billy towns.

Well its a good question why they still do that traditional crap with the President. Its probably because its all just a bunch of crap anyway. Its all a fake show for the general Christian public.

But yet they won't let us do it in public schools.

It doesn't make sense really.

Yeah, very true. If it's THAT bad of a thing to do, why do they have the president still do it. Guess it doesn't matter if the president(s) is offended lol.