Community > General Religion Chat

Topic: Jesus Is NOT The Father.........So How can He be God ?
Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 01/09/12 12:01 AM
That's right. We don't have to believe anything. While our personal beliefs do effect how we live our lives, the truth is the truth and it does not depend upon what we believe. It is still what it is. That is the only kind of faith anyone needs to have. Faith in what is. Faith in the truth no matter what it is. It is a miracle that we exist. I have faith in that, and I have faith that I exist for a reason. I don't claim to know the truth. I have faith in it anyway. Faith in God is faith in what is..... what ever it is. That is true faith.

MorningSong Joined Mon 02/11/08 Posts: 4505	Mon 01/09/12 12:12 AM Edited by MorningSong on Mon 01/09/12 12:32 AM
All three persons in One God, work together .....God The Father first DRAWS us ,and God the Holy Spirit CONVICTS us of our Sins, so that we may Receive God the Son into our heart(the One God SENT to SAVE us). ALL THREE persons in ONE GOD work together..but IF you REJECT God The Father DRAWING you, and you REJECT God The Holy Spirit CONVICTING you over and over about your sin and Your need for God the Son (Jesus) Who SAVES You,THEN You die in your sins....lost forever.....and there is nothing more that GOD can do to forgive you of your sins...because you rejecteed the One God SENT to SAVE YOU(Jesus), when You REJECTED the Holy Spirit CONVICTING You of your sins and your need for a Saviour. There is no more forgiveness after death, when we keep rejecting Jesus. In other words...., if you blaspheme the Holy Spirit when He is CONVICTING you over and over, and you die UNSAVED and lost.....then There is nothing more God can do to forgive you and save you after you die...... because God can NEVER go against His Word or Who He is ,or what He has already said in His Word that He Will Do.

Kleisto Joined Tue 05/13/08 Posts: 5704	Mon 01/09/12 12:36 AM Edited by Kleisto on Mon 01/09/12 12:37 AM
All three persons in One God, work together .....God The Father first DRAWS us ,and God the Holy Spirit CONVICTS us of our Sins, so that we may Receive God the Son into our heart(the One God SENT to SAVE us). ALL THREE persons in ONE GOD work together..but IF you REJECT God The Father DRAWING you, and you REJECT God The Holy Spirit CONVICTING you over and over about your sin and Your need for God the Son (Jesus) Who SAVES You,THEN You die in your sins....lost forever.....and there is nothing more that GOD can do to forgive you of your sins...because you rejecteed the One God SENT to SAVE YOU(Jesus), when You REJECTED the Holy Spirit CONVICTING You of your sins and your need for a Saviour. There is no more forgiveness after death, when we keep rejecting Jesus. In other words...., if you blaspheme the Holy Spirit when He is CONVICTING you over and over, and you die UNSAVED and lost.....then There is nothing more God can do to forgive you and save you after you die...... because God can NEVER go against His Word or Who He is ,or what He has already said in His Word that He Will Do. Then God isn't a very good parent, because NO good parent would EVER and I mean EVER reject their child forever no matter WHAT they did. Love always finds a way, and even if the person never receives it, they still love anyway. Casting out at any time, is NOT what love does. I always find it amazing how we expect less of God than we do of ourselves. A friend of mine has a saying, she won't worship a God who is worse than she is. I'd say that's pretty wise words. Oh and the Bible isn't God's word either, so that means little here. It's words of man masquerading as God, nothing more.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 01/09/12 01:17 AM
All three persons in One God, work together .....God The Father first DRAWS us ,and God the Holy Spirit CONVICTS us of our Sins, so that we may Receive God the Son into our heart(the One God SENT to SAVE us). ALL THREE persons in ONE GOD work together..but IF you REJECT God The Father DRAWING you, and you REJECT God The Holy Spirit CONVICTING you over and over about your sin and Your need for God the Son (Jesus) Who SAVES You,THEN You die in your sins....lost forever.....and there is nothing more that GOD can do to forgive you of your sins...because you rejecteed the One God SENT to SAVE YOU(Jesus), when You REJECTED the Holy Spirit CONVICTING You of your sins and your need for a Saviour. There is no more forgiveness after death, when we keep rejecting Jesus. In other words...., if you blaspheme the Holy Spirit when He is CONVICTING you over and over, and you die UNSAVED and lost.....then There is nothing more God can do to forgive you and save you after you die...... because God can NEVER go against His Word or Who He is ,or what He has already said in His Word that He Will Do. Then God isn't a very good parent, because NO good parent would EVER and I mean EVER reject their child forever no matter WHAT they did. Love always finds a way, and even if the person never receives it, they still love anyway. Casting out at any time, is NOT what love does. I always find it amazing how we expect less of God than we do of ourselves. A friend of mine has a saying, she won't worship a God who is worse than she is. I'd say that's pretty wise words. Oh and the Bible isn't God's word either, so that means little here. It's words of man masquerading as God, nothing more. God never "rejects" anyone. Heaven and eternal life is a gift. It is not like we live this life as a test, then get the results in the end. God does not test us, he does not tempt us. We live as we wish and God has given the knowledge we need to achieve this gift if one wishes to lay down his life and pick up the one God wishes for us to live. It's not like we'll be standing in line and as we get to the front of the line God either pushes the accept button or reject button. Again, eternal life is a gift given to those whom have earned it. The only way to achieve this gift is through Jesus Christ, for he is the path to our father.

MorningSong Joined Mon 02/11/08 Posts: 4505	Mon 01/09/12 01:24 AM Edited by MorningSong on Mon 01/09/12 01:26 AM
God NEVER rejects anyone. That is why God gives every man a chance..by DRAWING him and CONVICTING him of his sin and his need of Jesus as Saviour..and by eve giving a certain measure of faith to each human being... and no...God never rejects man..... God knows our nature and that we can't undestand God...so he helps us along to understand Him by drawing and convicting us....FIRST !!! Now....after God has woooed man over and over, and reached out to him over and over, and man STILL rejects God...even til his dying breath? Well..... then there is nothing more God can do....cause God will NEVER force man to accept Him. But again, God will DRAW man and CONVICT man, FIRST ,in order to help man see his need for Jesus as his Saviour.God never just leave man on his own, cauue NO man can save himself...ever.. this is all God's doing.

MorningSong Joined Mon 02/11/08 Posts: 4505	Mon 01/09/12 01:30 AM Edited by MorningSong on Mon 01/09/12 01:30 AM
Cowboy wrote: Again, eternal life is a gift given to those whom have earned it. The only way to achieve this gift is through Jesus Christ, for he is the path to our father. Eternal life is a GIFT..NOT something earned !!! NOT going thru this again, Cowboy.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 01/09/12 01:34 AM
Cowboy wrote: Again, eternal life is a gift given to those whom have earned it. The only way to achieve this gift is through Jesus Christ, for he is the path to our father. Eternal life is a GIFT..NOT something earned !!! NOT going thru this again, Cowboy. We're saying the same thing MorningSong, you're just real particular about how it's said. But faith without works is dead James 2:24 Ye then see how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

MorningSong Joined Mon 02/11/08 Posts: 4505	Mon 01/09/12 01:53 AM
Not the same thing....eternal life is NOT earned. As I said, not going thru this again. Just was dropping by to briefly help out here this morn.......

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 01/09/12 02:00 AM
Not the same thing....eternal life is NOT earned. As I said, not going thru this again. Just was dropping by to briefly help out here this morn....... If eternal life wasn't earned in one way or other, then everyone would go. We would not be told it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle then a rich man to enter into Heaven. Is that saying because the man is rich he automatically doesn't have the faith? Why would money have any form of anything on a person's faith if this was true?

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 01/09/12 02:12 AM
JESUS IS NOT THE FATHER So how can he be God? But back to the original statement in this thread. Then will you please explain Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Consellor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Notice, The Everlasting Father.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 01/09/12 02:17 AM
I think all of this debate is a huge waste of time, but oh well.

Sin_and_Sorrow Joined Sun 01/01/12 Posts: 5757	Mon 01/09/12 02:27 AM
Can I ask a serious question? ..good, cause I'm going to anyway. Don't take it the wrong way, but I've noticed something over my drastic and long 30 years of existence, ha! Every time a non-believer approaches a believer and asks something along the lines of: "How do you know there is a God?" Immediately, as if almost instinctively, the believer will start making references from the Bible. It is IMO that this makes absolutely no sense. Why? If the non-believer doesn't believe in God, than it is already a pretty decent hypothesis to guess he doesn't believe in the Bible either; since they have such a 'connection'. (Lack of a better word) Therefore, isn't there another way to convince someone who isn't a believer without making references to the Bible? Sorry, I know, a little off-topic. But I just saw you did it; which, if I was an NB,would mean absolutely nothing to me. I could quote the Book of Black Circles, but that doesn't mean you'll start performing dark rituals tomorrow. (FYI: If there is a black circle book, it is totally by coincidence. As I was just randomly inventing a name.)

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 01/09/12 03:09 AM
Can I ask a serious question? ..good, cause I'm going to anyway. Don't take it the wrong way, but I've noticed something over my drastic and long 30 years of existence, ha! Every time a non-believer approaches a believer and asks something along the lines of: "How do you know there is a God?" Immediately, as if almost instinctively, the believer will start making references from the Bible. It is IMO that this makes absolutely no sense. Why? If the non-believer doesn't believe in God, than it is already a pretty decent hypothesis to guess he doesn't believe in the Bible either; since they have such a 'connection'. (Lack of a better word) Therefore, isn't there another way to convince someone who isn't a believer without making references to the Bible? Sorry, I know, a little off-topic. But I just saw you did it; which, if I was an NB,would mean absolutely nothing to me. I could quote the Book of Black Circles, but that doesn't mean you'll start performing dark rituals tomorrow. (FYI: If there is a black circle book, it is totally by coincidence. As I was just randomly inventing a name.) Therefore, isn't there another way to convince someone who isn't a believer without making references to the bible No one can convince you of anything, but yourself. We are to spread the good news of Heaven and how to achieve. One can not pursuade another if that one does not wish to be pursuaded. And is why we will be judged for our own individual actions, because we can not control another's eg., believing or not.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 01/09/12 03:11 AM
I think all of this debate is a huge waste of time, but oh well. No debating going on. A debate is a competition to prove the other wrong and oneself right. That is not being done here. One person thinks this, one person thinks that. If the two think differently, why can they not tell one another how and why they believe. One of them will be shown their error if they are not so prideful in one's own understanding and will allow another to correct themselves.

CeriseRose Joined Mon 08/02/10 Posts: 6220	Mon 01/09/12 05:01 PM Edited by CeriseRose on Mon 01/09/12 05:15 PM
CeriseRose,I know you MEANT that statement above to MEAN that it is not neccessary to have a FULL UNDERSTANDING YET ABOUT JESUS ,IN ORDER to BECOME SAVED!!!! In other words, you were NOT saying that it is not neccessary to EVER believe AT ALL,that Jesus is God !!! JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THIS ,IN CASE SOME MIGHT HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD WHAT YOU WERE ACTUALLY SAYING HERE!!! CAUSE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS MOST DEFINITELY KNOW ,THAT JESUS IS GOD !!! JESUS IS JUST AS MUCH GOD AS THE FATHER and HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD !!! Again,,,,I know what you meant ,Ceriserose...and that is, that some may not quite understand the FULL Truth YET of WHO Jesus is AT THE MOMENT OF THIER SALVATION ...AND THAT IS FINE...... Thank you, MorningSong! I appreciate your siting on the comment I made. Without doubt, I believe that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh. All that you said above is true. I have posted on that topic on several occasions. Just want all to know that the scientific and physical probabilities are pointless to to debate. His ways and means are unsearchable even more so than the universe. The hidden things belong to God. How He performs all things is unsearchable. How He can be Son of God and son of man is unsearchable. How He can be Alpha and Omega is unsearchable. Studying the written Story will bring many to trust in our need for the Creator God and His Saving Grace. The documented events are tracible by the scriptures. The Middle East is filled with proofs and landmarks and locations as mentioned in the Bible. All that He would have us to know is obtainable. What would we do with more than we need?

Redykeulous Joined Thu 11/09/06 Posts: 6052	Mon 01/09/12 05:06 PM
Why would Jesus say that “My Father is greater than I” ?? If Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God are one, why did Jesus have to “go away” so that the “Helper” (Holy Spirit) would be sent to the people? Isn’t Jesus also the Holy Spirit? Yet Jesus had to send the Holy Spirit. Something is quite amiss and just as my first post, questioning who Jesus prayed to was ignored, I’m sure there will be no logical answer for the current questions. John 14:28 New King James Version (NKJV) 28 You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said,[a] ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I. John 16:7 New King James Version (NKJV) 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.

CeriseRose Joined Mon 08/02/10 Posts: 6220	Mon 01/09/12 05:41 PM
Why would Jesus say that “My Father is greater than I” ?? If Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God are one, why did Jesus have to “go away” so that the “Helper” (Holy Spirit) would be sent to the people? Isn’t Jesus also the Holy Spirit? Yet Jesus had to send the Holy Spirit. Something is quite amiss and just as my first post, questioning who Jesus prayed to was ignored, I’m sure there will be no logical answer for the current questions. John 14:28 New King James Version (NKJV) 28 You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said,[a] ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I. John 16:7 New King James Version (NKJV) 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. Jesus is speaking of the personification of the Father as compared with the personification of the Son. The Son was subject to the Father on earth... an example for us. He showed us the WAY. Later the personification is the Holy Spirit who indwells and abides with the believers after we trust. Always keep in remembrance that God is omnipresent. He is here and there.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 01/09/12 05:47 PM
Why would Jesus say that “My Father is greater than I” ?? If Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God are one, why did Jesus have to “go away” so that the “Helper” (Holy Spirit) would be sent to the people? Isn’t Jesus also the Holy Spirit? Yet Jesus had to send the Holy Spirit. Something is quite amiss and just as my first post, questioning who Jesus prayed to was ignored, I’m sure there will be no logical answer for the current questions. John 14:28 New King James Version (NKJV) 28 You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said,[a] ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I. John 16:7 New King James Version (NKJV) 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. I think it is symbolic of the little self and the higher self. But then, I'm not a Christian. I and my higher self are one.

Milesoftheusa Joined Fri 10/27/06 Posts: 5122	Mon 01/09/12 05:53 PM
I see alot of making the scripture fit our understanding and not making our understanding fit the scriptures.. This is what makes the word for the Priest benefit.. Pharasidical philosiphy alive and well.. Blessings..miles

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 01/09/12 06:07 PM
I see alot of making the scripture fit our understanding and not making our understanding fit the scriptures.. This is what makes the word for the Priest benefit.. Pharasidical philosiphy alive and well.. Blessings..miles NEWS FLASH Everyone does that including YOU.