I cant express the fact intensely enough that I don't give a **** whose feelings I hurt. If the shoe fits wear it. I figure if you feel insulted, then its because the truth is hitting a little close to home for you, them, or who ever.

Think about it, anger?

Some people sit around rooting on this war like its a dam football game. If they started the draft maybe they'd cry, whine, and protest in the streets. The way it is now they sit at home not giving a **** cause it isn't their lame ass going.

The military is not recruiting at all time highs either. You need to quit looking at whatever neocon web site your looking at, or resort to reading the whole story. One or the other.
Even with lowering the standards and excepting high school drop outs, and drug addicts the military is still not meeting its recruitment levels.

I really do wonder redwine where you get your information. The inaccuracy of it astounds me. The truth? HA, HA, Would you even know it? Do you even watch the news, or do you make up your own facts?

Mad, anger? How about disgust that some people can be so blind and complacent that they sit here and talk about a just war as long as they dont have to go fight it. I served my 4 years, How long did you serve? I payed my dues for America, How much have you spent?

Fanta46,

Thank you for your service.

let's send beaners to the war

don't hate me please

TLW, I love you man....LOL

Your welcome spider, I did it all for you!

Fanta46 says:
How about disgust that some people can be so blind and complacent that they sit here and talk about a just war as long as they dont have to go fight it. I served my 4 years, How long did you serve? I payed my dues for America, How much have you spent?

Dayv says:
2 Eights and 3 Tours, 1st Tour 18 mths, 2nd Tour 6 Months, 3rd tour 12 months....

P.S.
If it wasn't for my injuries and my daughter, I'd go 4.....

Dayv,

Thank you for your service. People who serve in the military take on a heavy burden so that the rest of us can live in peace. God bless you.

Fanta..first thank you for your service (along with Dayv) you have my utmost respect and graditude...But you keep bring up IF there was a draft..people would be this or that...that was my point we don't need a draft as long as there our brave men and woman who believe in the cause and are willing to fight for it. As for re-cruitment levels...I said ALMOST record levels..see you are distorting my words...like you distort all the "facts" in a light you wish to see..as for news on TV..maybe you should watch a little less of the propaganda and research other avenues of information..and lastly..as for my service..I tried to enlist when I was young..but after a severe motorcycle accident that left me with some permenant injuries ..I could not pass the physical..even at almost 50 years old..I would go now if they would let me...I'm sorry I can't match your service...but you seem very disgruntled about your service..was it voluntary or were you forced? And Lastly...Fanta..as harsh as these posts has become..I'd still sit down and have a drink with my bud

Redwine,
You say,"my point we don't need a draft as long as there our brave men and woman who believe in the cause and are willing to fight for it."
That's exactly what I'm talking about. You think that as long as these kids, from poor families with nowhere else to turn to better their futures other than the military, continue to volunteer. That other better off Americans and their children don't need to worry about it. Why should it matter to you, them, whoever if they die in an illegal, unjust war? They are just volunteers, right?
Why would I be disgruntled about my service? I'm proud of my service. A pride someone who has never served in the military will ever understand. I was 11B, Infantry, I served in the 4th Inf, and the 3rd Inf Divisions. I have an Honorable Discharge, and a DD-214 that says when I ETS'ed I was an E-5 (SGT, I have an EIB (Expert Infantry Badge, a Diploma that says I was the Honor Graduate at camp Red Devil, Colorado (that's PNCOC, Primary NCO course). I have several (4, I believe) certificates for completion's of SEERS courses, and an award for leading my squad to win 1st place in Brigade Artep (army readiness and training evaluation program. I also have several more accomplishments that I wont bother to mention here, because that's not my point.
I am proud of my service, and that pride leads me to disgust, when I think about these boys(my brothers) dying for this idiotic presidents personal agenda. This is the first time in the history of this country that we have attacked another country without provocation. I am disgusted when I see the kids whose parents pay for them to go to school and play games on the computer during class, while these poorer kids go to Iraq. I'm disgusted to hear people support this war that know nothing of the personal sacrifice involved by my brothers.
If this war is so just, and so worth the sacrifice to protect our freedoms, then it should be shared by all Americans. Privileged and unprivileged, not just the poor kids who have two choices; go work for minimum wage, because their parents cant afford to send them to school, or join the military, with the temptation of thousands of dollars in bonuses awaiting them.
The government does need the draft, our military is not experiencing record recruitment levels. You should at least do a little research beyond the headline's of articles that you don't read, or sound bytes from you-tube. before posting them as facts. The government is having such a hard time meeting recruitment levels that they have lowered the standards, and are talking of increasing the limit for foreign born, non citizens to enter the military. They wont start the draft, because they know that it would lead to total rejection of this war. As soon as every one's, rich poor, privileged, and unprivileged American kids had to sacrifice equally this (their) war could not continue. It would tickle me to death to quit hearing people say,"we don't need a draft as long as there our brave men and woman who believe in the cause are willing to fight."

PS during the cold war, the US Army had 365,000 troops in Europe, another 365,000 in the continental US. Now the whole Army would be hard pressed to muster 365,000. We were all volunteer then, and had a waiting list to join, so how in the hell can you say, record recruiting levels?

bravo Fanta...

last time i heard a report from the military about recruitment which was a little less than a year ago they said that we were hurtin for troops. it could have changed since then but i don't think it has.

Thanks devinci!

I wrote this in English class, and plan on sending it to the NPR, This I believe radio show. Enjoy, or dont, but "This I Belive"



December 7, 2006
A Veterans’ Point of View
As a veteran of the Armed Forces, I watched the reaction to the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan and I saw a reaction similar to what I might expect at a sporting event. Instead of being shocked at the loss of life, soldiers, civilians, and property, people were watching it on the television at home, at work, and at the local pub laughing, cheering, and even playing armchair quarterback. Did they not understand that these were real people in real places, with families, hopes, and dreams just like them, and that those American soldiers had mothers who were worried?
Many of my family members have served in the Armed Forces throughout the history of America, including myself both in war and in peacetime. There has always been a great deal of patriotism and pride in our participation and service to the country. Lately however, I have taken notice of the younger generation in my family, and I believe that they are a good representation of the younger generation in our country. Their attitude and the attitude of the majority of their friends seem to be that they are naturally entitled to the benefits and luxuries of our society without ever doing anything to contribute. It is not just in the youth that I see this attitude, but it surrounds me everywhere I go, when I listen to broadcasts on the radio, or television news, and even when I watch my favorite television series. Once, while listening to the news, I heard President Bush comment that he was well aware that our soldiers were making a great sacrifice, but that they were all volunteers.
I understand that the men and women who are risking their lives in service to our country are doing so voluntarily, but I worry that our government and some of the citizens are abusing them just because they do. These men and women are the most patriotic of Americans. I fear they are being sacrificed willingly and readily because they volunteer. OK, we were attacked first, and maybe the war is a just cause, then is it not the duty of every American to sacrifice equally, is it not everyone’s cause? If the President’s or the congressional representatives’ and Senators’ sons were among the ranks marching off to war, would they be so eager to send them into harm’s way? If the people at the local pub knew that their children might be the next to go, would they still cheer it on as if it were the World Series or the Superbowl?
I believe, if the young men and women of this country, either with the military or in a civil capacity, had to perform at least two years of national service. They would be more appreciative of the benefits of being an American. They might have more patriotism, and maturity, and vote more readily if this were required of them. I believe there would be a rise in the morale of our service members and they would feel more appreciated, when they did not have to perform repeated tours away from their homes and loved ones. We would also have more resources available for natural disasters like hurricane Katrina, and the many wildfires mudslides, and tornados that we have each year. We would be better able to patrol our borders and inspect shipments at our ports, and we would create more pride in the sacrifices that our brave men and women make in defense of our freedom, because we would all be making similar sacrifices. As a veteran, I often ask myself these questions and many more, and ponder these possibilities, and this is why I believe we should reinstate the draft.

Wow Fanta..you are so far off base..I don't know where to start....last to first I guess..you say we be hard pressed to find 350,000 troops...we have well over 1,275,000 over 3 times what you say....also during the draft is when most of the "poor" went into service...the ones that couldn't afford College and special exemptions..todays military is made up people from all classes that volunteer...Remember the Arizona Cardinal Football player and his brother joined, giving up millions..and there are a lot more you just don't hear about...I know many middle and upperclass (several are from my family joined..I have 7 nephews and neices in Iraq right now...all of them are from "well to do families" and all have College educations).You are so blinded by the anti-war rethoric . I would suggest you contact a site where you can actually talk to these service members and listen to what they say. One more Fact about draft vs Voluntary...the level of expertise and moral are much better in a voluntary military.

P.S. re-cruitmentment levels after 911 were the highest since WW2

BTW..I NEVER go to Utube...and never would:)

i'm sure they were but that was 6 years ago. the report i saw was less than a year ago.

The fiqure you posted redwine is total millitary, The fiqures I posted were Army only! Sorry, maybe I miss posted that.

well fanta your half right..my numbers were just infantry..not including Navy, Airforce and civil military jobs...

I have talked to these boys, I have talked to the recruiters, and my family members are serving there too. Your mentioning a minority of the military.

I also know that desertions are at a level not seen since the Vietnam war. I am not anti- military, nor do I live with illusions that war is not necessary. You never hear me say a word about Afghanistan being an illegal war, although many think it is, I don't. Unfortunately, we have about as many troops there as we do in S. Korea, and are ignoring that war.

My Cousin has served 25 yrs (SF), he has been to Afghanistan 3 times and Iraq 3 times. He tells me that the morale amongst Combat troops in Iraq (not the ones on CNN) is very low. That the effort there is being hurt by too many under trained NG, and reserve units, while the morale of the combat troops in Afghanistan is very low, because they feel neglected by the military, the government, and the American Public. You tell me what I should believe, You, and George Bush, or him and my own common sense backed up by experience and research? I have a nephew at Ft Benning right now. I am trapped between pride that he wants to be Infantry like his Uncle, and disgust that I might be responsible for his choice if he dies in Iraq. I can only hope that he will be sent to Afghanistan where if he does get killed, at least it will be for defending America.
Did I mention Iraq is an illegal, unjust war?

my apologies serchin. the information that i had was from last year before they changed all of the standards.

Fanta...exactly why do you call it an illegal war?...I got to hear this...When Clinton went into Bosnia (without Congresses approval I might add...at least Bush got the approval )he said we'd be there for only about six months....we are still there 10 years later...but that wasn't illegal to be bombing the hell of a place with no one's approval but his own?? I have to hear your logic on this...and then afterwards...lets go to pub and chill and have some drinks bud