I dont know if we can attain whether someone is using reason or consideration of other possibilities merely by how strongly they believe in something themself

I can respect and consider other peoples beliefs because I was raised to put myself in other people shoes and I Realize different perceptions arise out of different life experiences

my experiences helped to develop and reinforce my beliefs, and I believe that of everyone posting

but when someone thinks something is 'true', merely by repeating the notion to themself consciously and subconsciously and repeatedly, they rarely are going to truly 'consider' another truth is right, they may consider though how another person came to their conclusions....

Are you asking me personally? Or are you just talking to the forum?

Jeanie, general question to anyone and everyone, but you are more then welcome to answer lol.

I guess your question does not apply to me then.

Jeanie,
Why would one consider another possibility? Why would someone originally put faith in something they have doubts in?

Because they seek truth, no matter what.

I do.

So people throw their faith around insincerely and in vein? They put their full and total faith into something that just seems good for the moment?

And yes, people seek the truth. But why would one put complete faith into something before they were sure it was the truth?

I don't know what people you are referring to.

Your questions don't apply to me.

You were the one that mentioned the "people" in the first place in the following quote.



If you don't who these people are, then how do you know that is what they are doing? How do you know their reasoning behind changing beliefs?

I only speak for myself.

I seek the truth, no matter what.

That's a good mind set to have and keep :).

Since you're aiming this at the forum in general as always, I'll offer you my reply:

To begin with, I don't claim to have an absolute firm belief in anything. I believe in truth and honesty. And that includes being truthful and honest with myself.

Do I know for a fact, that any religion, spiritual faith, or any ideas of a potential 'everlasting life' actually exist or are even possible?

No I don't, I'd be a fool to even claim that I knew such a thing. I would be dishonest even with myself if I pretended to have such supreme knowledge.

I also don't believe that any mortal human has knowledge of any such things. It's my conviction that all humans are ultimately agnostic whether they are willing to be honest with themselves about this or not.

So in that sense I have no absolute closed-minded beliefs about anything. There may or may not be a spiritual essence to reality. I have no clue, and neither do you.

So the very concept of "belief" has a totally different meaning to you than it does to me. What you have is faith, which is really quite different from belief, IMHO. Although I'm fully aware that you cannot understand that. By the very way that you speak it's clear that you can't differentiate between faith and belief. You have convinced yourself that they are one in the same thing. Probably so that you can "believe" that your faith has merit beyond the mere faith that it actually is.

Evidently your faith is so utterly important to you, that you can't even handle the idea of other people not supporting it.

I'm nowhere near that dependent on faith. In fact, I have no need of faith at all. I can accept an atheistic world, if that's reality. So be it. If that's the truth of reality then that's what it is.

Would I prefer that there exists a spiritual essence to reality?

Well, maybe I would, and maybe I wouldn't. That all depends on what that spirituality entails.

I am not so terrified of death that I'll grasp at anything to avoid having to face death. I've told you countless times that if the God depicted in the Bible is the reality of spiritual truth, then I would actually prefer to die.

I'm not kidding when I say that an atheistic universe is more appealing to me than the idea of a God who is so extremely lame concerning his communications with humans.

And yes, I realize that your obsessive impulse will be to argue there there is nothing lame about the way that the biblical God communicates with people, etc.

Well, that's a totally fruitless argument to attempt to have with me, because I will never agree with you on that point. I'm telling you that for me the biblical picture of God is so lame that it's totally inexcusable and there can be no justification for it, IMHO.

That is my own personal observation and conclusion concerning that religious doctrine. It's futile for you to argue with me about that, because I'm just telling you how I see it. I'm not asking you to try to change my mind on that point.

You claim that you are just here to share views. Well it's my view that the biblical picture of God is neither inviting to me, nor does it appear to be an intelligent way of attempting to communicate with me.

That's my final word on that matter. That's my view.

I would rather the universe be totally godless and non-spiritual than for the biblical picture of God to be true.

So I have absolutely no desire to even consider that picture of spirituality. Neither on pure faith nor based on any arguments that attempt to make out like as if it's a reasonable story.

Thus, if there is a spiritual essence to reality (which may or may not be the case), I'm convinced that the Eastern Mystical picture of spirituality has far more merit and chance of being true, than does anything that came out of the entire Mediterranean region.

So if I wanted to place faith in anything at all it would be Eastern Mysticism.

~~~~

Having said all of the above, I do have both intuitive and intellectual reasons to lean toward "believing" that a spiritual essence to reality is indeed a possibility.

I find that possibility compelling enough to place my faith in that possibility. And so from there I act upon that faith and imagine that it could indeed be true.

That's what faith is to me. Imagining that something could be true.

I have faith that a spiritual essence of reality may indeed be true.

But I don't need other people to believe that. It doesn't bother me if someone is a firm believer in atheism. I believe that whatever will be will be, and it doesn't truly matter what we believe. If reality is spiritual, then all are spiritual. If reality is non-spiritual then it's non-spiritual for everyone.

~~~~~

The doctrine that you constantly preach, and you do indeed preach it in spite of your denial. Is an extremely egotistical doctrine (not egotistical in terms of you personally), but rather egotistical in terms of religious dogma.

The religion itself is designed to "OWN GOD" and basically condemn everyone who doesn't believe in the religion to a state of spiritual death or eternal suffering and torment, and only those who accept the religion will become full-fledged spiritual beings who will experience everlasting life.

From my perspective such a religion is clearly man-made politics created in the name of a "God". Designed to put out a carrot of everlasting life to draw people in, and to condemn those who refuse to be drawn in to everlasting suffering and torment. It's lust-driven and fear-based.

~~~~

If I believe anything at all, I believe that we are either all spiritual beings, or we aren't. This idea of Gods who judge individuals souls and who will even condemn people for merely not believing in them is totally absurd, IMHO, to put it mildly.

That very brainwashing scheme is a 'hateful' scheme IMHO. And therefore since the religion is based on this scheme it is a 'hateful' religion.

Again, that's my own personal view that I'm sharing.

I'm not asking for you to argue with me to try to convince me that I'm wrong about my conclusions.

You asked me about my beliefs, and I'm telling you how I believe.

I don't expect an argument in return if all you are here for is to share beliefs.

All you should being saying to me is, "I understand your views".

You don't need to accept them, agree with them, or argue with them.

We're just sharing our views.

Right?

Bill Hicks (a controversial stand-up comic) says that God loves everyone no matter what they do or who they are and we are all immortal spiritual beings.

I agree with that.

How you speak on a general note is quite contrary to this. You speak as you know absolutes, when you continuolly state the Christian faith as being fables, you state it as it were a fact, which is again quite contrary to your quoted response of not knowing. Not stating your a fool in anyway, but this brings to mind a great saying, "better someone to think you a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt". So if you do not know for sure, then why do you post as you do?



When you "believe" something, you are putting "faith" in it as being true. "Faith" is not a thing in it's own, it is more or less a measuring tool. How much faith you have, ect. The amount of faith you have in something show's how much you "believe" it to be true.



I have absolutely no fear of death. I've died once, and that tragedy doesn't phase me one bit psychologically. Why should someone fear death? What would their be to fear? If the Christian faith isn't true, what have I lost by living my life full of love?

1. Because they like life?

2. Pain of dying and no longer living.

3. One does not need the Christian faith to live your life "full of love."


But what you loose by not having a more open mind is knowledge.

1. They might. But we were more or less born to die, so why fear it? We all have our end in this life time, again why fear it?

2. Once you're dead, there would be no pain. So why fear the little bit of pain previous to death if one suffers a painful death? Why fear no longer living? refer to 1.

3. No they don't, But then that brings the question "What is love"? Because we all interpret love differently. Some action one may see as a loving action, another may see it as a cruel action. Where is the line for love?

because there is more than one truth, the possibility of relative truth and the possibility that not all truths are yet known. knowledge never harms, it is always good to continue to learn, unless you understand another's truths you cannot join in brothership, no ones truth is "best" as long as it is sincere

this is the short list

don't hate

No hate'n goin on. Just discussion on differences in beliefs/faiths. How can their be more then one truth? The world had to have been created one way, at one time. And how do you know not all truths are yet known? If they are not known, how do you know they will be known, or that there even exists another? Cause if you know there's another, then obviously it's not "unknown".

And there's not his truth, her truth, their truth, ect. There has got to be one truth. At this moment, not claiming Christianity in general in this statement. But whatever the truth may be, there has got to be only one.

Not saying other's aren't allowed their beliefs in other spiritual views in anyway. But all in all, only one belief can be true. Weather that belief is known now or not, there has got to be only one.

Because the scripture say to.

Prove all things and

when you believe you can not be decieved you are decieved already.

Thats why.. Shalom..Miles