Yes, I'm sure he meant to use the words he used for effect. But certainly not to imply that Jesus was "The Christ"

You are wrong on all counts Cowboy.



No, it's not taken on faith. There is overwhelming evidence that this is indeed the case.



No this is not true Cowboy. We have overwhelming evidence that the Earth goes around the sun and not the other way around. In fact, the phases of Venus seals the case. As well as many other scientific observations.



No, again, you are totally wrong. You don't need to take anyone's word for it, you can prove this fact to yourself if you truly care to do it.

Clearly you don't understand science at all. Do you honestly believe that these things are merely believed on "faith"?

If you do then you are far more naive than I had first imagined.



Go on and on doing what? Proving your absolute complete ignorance of the scientific method of discovery of truths?

You're not merely a religious fanatic obsessed with supporting a faith-based mythology at all cost, but you are also in complete denial of human knowledge and intellectual achievement.

In truth you are actually supporting and propagating falsehoods Cowboy. The claims that you make in an effort to support your religious views are actually false. No one needs to believe that the earth is round on pure faith. They can easily prove this to themselves if they have the desire to do so.

You're actually spreading intellectual ignorance in your quest to support your religious beliefs.

Although, I personally don't believe that you do this with malice. You've probably been taught these falsehoods and you have come to believe them yourself. So in your mind you think that you are speaking truth, when in fact you are not.

This comes as no surprise to me at all since clearly you are under the belief that you are FREE to believe or not believe anything you so chose on a whim.

Therefore you CHOOSE to believe that scientific knowledge is nothing more than pure faith-based guesses. You've CHOSEN to believe that. But in truth, there is no rational reason to support that view.

What evidence do YOU have of this? Cause if it is evidence supplied by someone else, it is taken on faith as being true.



What evidence do YOU have of this? Cause if it is evidence supplied by someone else, it is taken on faith as being true.



Please if I do not understand science at all, inform us of how you know these things for absolute fact and not relying on hearsay rumors of the scientists.

Did you discover these things yourself? Cause if you did not, if you got your information from another party, you're listening to hearsay rumors are you continuously point out of the Christian faith. You say we believe these things on pure faith, they are hearsay rumors. So is most of science, you believe these things without repeating the experiments yourself, you take it on faith that what they say is true.

Evidence belongs to anyone and everyone who cares anything about education and knowledge.

According to Abra, if it comes out of the book it is hearsay rumors. So for it not to be hearsay rumors, one would have to repeat the experiment and find the results for oneself. So according to that, most to all science is nothing but hearsay rumors, he obviously holds dear to being true and absolute. When in fact it is nothing more then hearsay rumors, less he has again repeated the experiment to find it out for himself.

Go back to school.

Cowboy,

You are pursuing a truly futile line of argument for the purpose of attempting to support your religious views.

To begin with, even if I were to concede that nothing can be known beyond pure faith, where would that bring us?

Can you figure that one out?

I'll tell you exactly where it would bring us.

It would bring us to the conclusion that everything must be taken on faith and that there is no more evidence for anything than there is for anything else.

If that's the case then all you have accomplished is to show that there is absolutely no more reason to believe in the Abrahamic religions than there is to believe in the religious beliefs of the Ancient Greeks and Zeus and company.

You'd also need to confess that Wicca, Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, and even things like Satanism have precisely the same worthiness and merit to be believed on FAITH as does your version of Christianity.

So all you are saying when you argue that everything must be believed on pure faith is that there can be no special reason to believe in Christianity over anything else.

In fact, the very moment that you attempt to argue that you might be able to produce a reason to believe in Christianity over anything else, you've blown away your very own stance that everything must be believed on pure faith, because at that point you would be attempting to give a REASON to believe in something over something else.

So your very approach is totally fruitless and serves no one any good including yourself.

You can never "support" Christianity by simply trying to reduce everything else to be nothing more than "pure faith-based belief".

In fact, when you attempt to go down that road all you are doing is confessing that you can't support Christianity beyond pure faith, therefore the only means you have to try to give it merit is to REDUCE everything else to pure faith, in the hopes that now Christianity will be on a LEVEL playing field.

That is truly a futile approach for attempting to support a faith-based believe.

~~~~~~

And as I've already told you many times before, if EVERYTHING is reduced to merely a faith-based belief then in terms of spirituality I would choose to believe in Eastern Mysticism because it's far more positive and uplifting than the Abrahamic picture of a God who condemns people to eternal damnation for trivial reasons like not even believing in him.



So where does your approach lead?

It leads to convincing me that even you confess that there is no more reason to believe in Christianity over something like Eastern Mysticism because they are both purely FAITH-BASED beliefs.

So that's where we'd end even if we bothered to go down that road.

Personally I don't accept your delusions that scientific knowledge is faith-based. I've been educated in the sciences, and with a good education you quickly learn that no one is asking you to believe anything that's merely in the book. On the contrary you had better pass the LABS too! Get in there and do the experiments yourself.

You can observe for yourself the phases of Venus even with a small telescope. I had a 10" Newtonian telescope and saw the phases of Venus for myself. I've seen the curved shadow of the earth on the moon. I don't need to take anyone's word for these things.

So you're not even making any sense.

Clearly, you have never had a rigorous education in the sciences, if you had, you'd know that it involves far more than just reading books.

Obviously you are both obsessed and desperate to support your religion. Even to the point where you will attempt totally fruitless forms of argument to try to REDUCE all human knowledge to being nothing more than "pure faith" just in an attempt to bring your unsupportable religion onto a level playing field.

But like I say, that's not going anywhere anyway because that automatically puts ALL RELIGIONS on a level playing field.

All you're doing with your argument is telling people that they have just as much reason to place their faith in Wicca, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Islam, or anything other than Christianity, because according to you they are ALL faith-based and none of them has any more credibility than any other.

They can't, because according to you ALL KNOWLEDGE is "faith based" and that would certainly need to include your choice of religion as well.

So you lose with that argument anyway.

Well, according to Cowboy there is no more reason to believe in Christianity than any other religion. They are all faith-based hearsay according to him.

That's the only place he can go with his current argument.

Yes if you believe what he is saying, there is no reason to believe anything over anything else.

Its all what ever you want to believe.

That means that there can be no truth or proof of anything at all.
And there is NO REASON to discuss or argue about anyone's beliefs at all. None are any better than the other I guess.

Pick one that makes you feel good.

I believe I am God and that I will live forever.

So sayeth the Lord.

You're funny Abra. You may be here to change the views of others, which you appear to be. You continually down and or degrade religious beliefs to purely fictional stories taken on faith from hearsay rumors. And in turn you feel others have similar motives. I'm here DISCUSSING religious views, not trying to convert anyone or show Christianity in particular as being absolute fact. We don't all have your motives for discussing the this forum. I personally, am just here for the conversation on different spiritual views. To share mine and hear others. Nothing more, nothing less, it's called SHARING. Not debating, or arguing. It is you that always turns it to a debate or argument. You continually try to point out things you see as absurd in the religious view of whatever may be the topic at hand.

Not here to change anyone's views Abra, only to discuss and share my own personal beliefs, as that's what this forum is for. So please keep the "making the other look bad" to yourself and stay on topic of the discussion.

That's pretty much how the world runs Jeanie. Someone has faith in a theory, then the theory is tested multiple times looking for the same result. If it results in the same outcome those tests, it then becomes a fact in the science world. But how do you truly know they tested it over and over? How do you know it is for sure a fact? You don't less you repeat the experiment(s) to find out directly for yourself, if you do not do this, it is taken on hearsay faith. I only am pointing this out because Christianity is often referred to as hearsay rumors in this forum, so I am merely pointing out most to all "knowledge" the world possess is taken on hearsay rumors.

When it comes to spiritual beliefs, people will believe what they wish to believe, nothing more, nothing less. Nothing can be "proven" to another in reference to spirituality. Weather there exists a thing or doesn't exist. None of which can be proven less the one is willing to allow it to be. And again, same with all knowledge. Nothing can be proven to another, less they allow it to persuade them. You can not PROVE Abraham was ever someone that existed and so on and so on, less the one is again willing to allow it to be true.

Please don't take this personal Cowboy, but what makes you think anyone really cares bout your own personal beliefs?

Also, you did not address the real subject of his post, you avoided it completely and changed the subject.

The real subject was about you trying to try to REDUCE all human knowledge to being nothing more than "pure faith" just in an attempt to bring your unsupportable religion onto a level playing field.

You are hilarious.

I am 62 years old and I have been observing how the world runs three times longer than you have and you purport to try to tell me how the world runs? Very funny.

You have proven over and over again that you are clueless.

Why on earth should I listen to you about how you think the world runs?

You still do not know the meaning of "hearsay" and you know nothing about scientific methods.

You are hopeless and hilarious and CLUELESS.

If you don't, don't read my posts. Simple as that lol. If you do not care about other people's religious beliefs, don't go to a "general" religion forum. Cause they may not be the same beliefs you have.

Most everything is taken on faith, show me my error there and we'll discuss.

I personally don't believe you Cowboy.

You've clearly stated in the past that you are a "Servant of the Lord" seeking to spread his word.

That totally conflicts with your current claim that you are merely here to discuss.

You have also stated in the past that you are attempting to convince people of the truth of the Bible because you "love them" and care about their spiritual fate.

Again, that doesn't sound like you are merely here to discuss.

So your previous claims conflict with your current claims. So which should I believe?

In the end it really doesn't matter. Even if you are here to merely discuss religious views, etc, your current position that everything is on equal footing as far as being faith-based hearsay is concerned still supports the idea that all religions (and even those considered to be mere mythologies) must also be on equal footing.

So that's were your views lead.

Whether they be an attempt to proselytize a particular religion, or merely "just discussion".

The final conclusion is the same. What you are basically saying is that there is no more reason to believe in anything over anything else. So just choose what you'd like to believe on a whim.

Just like Jeanniebean said:


That's precisely the argument you have just given Cowboy.

All things are equally faith-based, there is no credible evidence for anything, it's all hearsay. Therefore believe whatever you like because it's all just a guess.

That's basically what you've just argued for, whether you realize it or not. Whether it was intended as a means to argue for a particular religion, or just discussion. It matters not.

You've just basically said that all beliefs are on equal footing.

I am sure there are a lot of people who ignore your posts for that very reason. They know that there is nothing to be learned from you.

I will not show you "your error" because it has been shown to you over and over and you can't see it. Your ego is totally blind.

"Hearsay" means - Information received from other people that cannot be adequately substantiated; rumor.

Now to associate that definition to what we are talking about, tell me how do you know the world in oval shape besides the fact that someone told you. Or pictures taken by other people, cause if you believe that, I'll show you pictures of the world being square or flat if you want.

BTW thanks for the advice. I'm no longer going to read your posts.

But you never bothered to answer my questions so why should I answer yours?

Here is my question. Answer it if you want.

Why do you think anyone is interested in what you believe?

No, there's no conflict there. Just because I am spreading the word of God, doesn't mean I am preaching. Why do people have discussions? Is it not to "spread" the knowledge they posses?



Never said I was here to "convince" anyone. I am here to INFORM people of the truth. And yes it is because I love you all. No one can convince you of anything, but yourself.