King, I wasn't suggesting that evryone sits by idely. It was an observation of sorts. Of humanity. It's weaknesses, and the lack of responsibility to act.

I have...since I came to believe that God is THE ONE AND ALMIGHTY,. And that hell is a place to fear in resistance to our sins, eternanity. And that heaven is that place to reach for, by living good and forthright.

This has become a topic to me in my own life. I am searching. And, it is by listening to you guys and so many more that I can get a better understanding. That is all.

Kat

The only thing I have is not nice and not pretty Kat. Here's the deal and I'm not even sure I believe this cause it is so flat out nasty. You live your life, according to Bible/Quran (I only just started the Torah, so I can't tell ya that one yet, but Miles or one of the others'll pop in and cover that) according to God's laws/word to the best of your ability and honestly. You don't try to bull-sh-it your way through this. You have a set time for your life in this body. When that time is up -- Judgement Day, i.e. death of body, Spirit check-up time with God (Yhwh), soul proceeds to wherever is best for that soul's growth, cycle continues with soul incarnating (I only remember earthly incarnations, Kat, so if there are ones on other planets or places I can't say cause I don't remember any at this point). The whole purpose of life from what I can tell at this point, is for the soul to grow and willingly submit to the will of the Creator. Eventually, it is written that God has a set time to say basically, "Okay, times up" Final Judgement Day. God then proceeds to judge who goes where (time frame for how long I have not run across yet nor do I have any inkling mind wise or feel-wise). This is where it gets really confusing compared to the confusion I'm already attempting to muddle through. Hell is talked about a lot now. People who claim to be faithful God followers but really aren't are main Hell fire fodder (this is why you can't bull**** about belief - God'll know - its GOD), those who claim to believe in God but chose not to back it up with action - more fuel for the fire. Here's what I found really interesting in the Quran - Those who do not believe in God, but live according to God's laws/word will be judged and seem to have a pretty good chance of heaven. The ones that believe in God and live righteously they go to heaven unless God says, "uh-huh, this, this, and this happened - you're fire bound. Bottom line God gets to say where everbody goes and because we're talking God and nobody sees all that he does there is no way for any other than God to know. The dead are also spoken of rising and being judged here too. The only thing I can figure with this is for some reason (I have no clue why) some souls do not return to God after the body dies.

The hell on earth. That too is stuff the created mind has no way of understanding the reasoning behind. If you believe God tests people (yes, I do) there's that option, nastiness for soul growth is a possibility, karma payback is a possibility.

Is that what you wanted?

neither was i. i was only trying to say that i don't. i believe that everyone has the option to be part of the option or part of the solution but in the end i am responsible for my own healing.

i don't believe in karma but i completely believe in GOD testing you with troubles...like you said, you can't bull**** GOD and if you take a lesson from the troubles it can make you a better person.

You can't BS yourself either. No matter how hard you try, you above all know what's in your heart and whether or not you're doing right or wrong.

Ultimately I feel I'm the ONE who's responsible for MY own actions and won't/can't rely on something/someone to pass judgement whether I'm good or bad. I know full well myself.

good point, i agree

Very good wench. So, you think that I am bullshi-ng my way through this?? I am simply trying to strengthen my beliefs. It, sometimes becomes blurry with so much going on.
So many say that this is the only place. Heaven, hell.
I was only clarifying that I have a God based belief. That for me to change what I feel and believe is almost nil. But, one must admit that this unwholly life as it is, has to have a meaning. Why do so many have to suffer for so little and for nothing? Some would say that, that is THEIR hell.
Why is, for instance; is the lives of so many in Darfur; so horrible? What possibley could they have done to deserve a hell of that magnitude?

I look forward to hearing more of what you learn from the Torah. I dabble now and again.
Kat

Thanks Kat, you're right, I needed to reread that first paragraph.

The world-wide hell - could it be humanities collective test (are we going to look after #1 or figure out how to live together peaceably? Could it be the prophesies being fulfilled - way outta my leaque here Kat. I can't help with this one. My brain needs other ideas to get that Ah-Ha moment to pop..........I'm still working on that 3rd commandment name question of AB's.

Thanks, kid and king.
Kat

You rotten woman, I never said I thought you were bullsh*ting your faith!!!!!

I must have missed that one wench. Third commandment?

I will lokk forward to reading you, when that brainstorm hits.
Kat

Oooops...must have read it wrong. Soorrrreeeeee.lol
Kat

I want to suggest an alternative (its just a suggestion, you can accept or ignore it). These are not my original ideas as I am but a student. I got them from other spiritual teachers (specifically - Echardt Tolle).
I don't think there is a heaven or hell. I think they are concepts created by man to try and understand what we are doing here in this illusion of life.
There are 3 entities within you: Self, mind, and body.
The Self is who you really are. where as the mind and body are created by the Self in this incarnation. The mind and body will die, while your Self is eternal.
The mind creates problems, because it is such a good problem solver, and wants you (your Self) to think that you are your mind and can't get along without it. Because the mind is not eternal and is affraid to die.

So, with that as a little background where I'm coming from:
There will always be problems in the world. Over 6 billion minds creating problems, well now thats a mess.

Where is that darn jaw dropping icon when you need one?
Wow...wow. Hmmmmm hmmmmmmmmm...That was a good read. Thanks.
Kat

Where is that darn jaw dropping icon when you need one?
Wow...wow. Hmmmmm hmmmmmmmmm...That was a good read. Thanks.
Kat

uh oh...hiccup

Rollin it around for a while EZ, Thanks. Gonna have to look that guy up.

eh, it works for me.
I'll admit that I too get worked up over all the problems in the world. For instance, I was directed to youtube video in another post on this site when I happened to notice some videos about Iraq. I clicked on a couple and became horrified and shaken about what I saw. (But thats another topic.)
My point is, or really Tolle's point is, situations are as they are. You must accept them as they are. After you accept the truth of the situation as it is, you make a choice: work with it as it is, change it, or avoid it.

i was told once that heaven was in my arms... <<<just saying>>>