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| Topic: Nothing has meaning except for the meaning you give it | |
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... Robbins thinks that success occurs when a person thinks only positive, empowering, and happy thoughts.
To me, that’s not success, that’s just annoying, not to meantion that Robbins is not making good use of the English language. 
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So you think both? Meaning can be derived, or intended?
I'm not sure that that captures what I'm thinking. I think that there is good evidence to suggest that meaning is intrinsic to successive events. I think that there is good evidence to suggest that people attribute meaning to these events. The fact that we can be wrong shows that meaning is not exhausted by our interpretion of fact/reality. Intention is a rabbit hole. |
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Thu 08/18/11 07:53 AM
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So you think both? Meaning can be derived, or intended?
I'm not sure that that captures what I'm thinking. I think that there is good evidence to suggest that meaning is intrinsic to successive events. I think that there is good evidence to suggest that people attribute meaning to these events. The fact that we can be wrong shows that meaning is not exhausted by our interpretion of fact/reality. Intention is a rabbit hole. So I have to assume now that you wanted to only deal with natural meanings. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meaning Meaning
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search Look up meaning in Wiktionary, the free dictionary. Meaning may refer to: * Meaning (linguistics), meaning which is communicated through the use of language * Meaning (non-linguistic), extra-linguistic meaning (intentional communication without the use of language), and natural meaning, where no intentions are involved at all * Meaning (semiotics) has to do with the distribution of signs in sign relations * Meaning as a relationship between ontology and truth * Meaning as a reference or equivalence * Meaning (philosophy of language) * Meaning as values, a value system or as derived from value theory * Meaning (existential), as it is understood in contemporary existentialism * The meaning of life, a notion concerning the nature of human existence * Meaning (House), an episode of the TV series House This list (with links at the actual site) shows us that this concept is extremely wide, casts a large net. So I take it you are really only interested in the natural meaning? A non-linguistic meaning is an actual or possible derivation from sentience, which is not associated with signs that have any original or primary intent of communication. It is a general term of art used to capture a number of different senses of the word "meaning", independently from its linguistic uses.
I suppose my views on meaning has been a bit 1D. |
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I think that regarding language/communication, meaning is use and as such it directly involves intention and identity. For instance, if a master builder asks a helper for a 'block' and instead receives something else, then s/he will be quick to correct what was intended/meant by the word 'block'. "Not that, but this. This is a block, that is not a block , but a board."
This example, taken from Wittgenstein, offers a clear picture of how words are arbitrarily assigned a value/meaning in order to communicate intention, and highlights how language is a social construct. Thus, consistent language use develops mutual understanding and is often a matter of conveying intention, especially concerning directives. More later... |
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Causality offers a means to discuss natural meaning, and our recognition of it and the laws that it obeys gives rise to the relationship between ontology(that which is) and truth. The difficulty I find in discussing that relationship is the often neglected distinction between that which is the case and that which is believed to be the case. Truth being a component of the latter but not the former - unless, that is, we're discussing what constitutes being thought/belief. The OP is an example of confusing a worldview and reality. It conflates personal interpretation with that which is being interpreted. It is through understanding causality's role in thought/belief that we can shed some light on the topic, specifically, what constitutes being a mistake in thought/belief/interpretation.
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So I have to assume now that you wanted to only deal with natural meanings.
More than anything, I'm attempting to set out how meaning works. |
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This is awkward because if I choose to disregard something or block it out, does this mean it does not exist...or have no meaning? Something without meaning would not serve a purpose..But if pay no meaning to scientific research for disease does that mean it does not exist? You don't "pay" meaning to things. You "give" meaning to them. You "pay attention." So the question is: If you ignore something, does is cease to exist? The answer is no. It has to exist so you can ignore it. The act of ignoring something requires that you know of its existence. In order for a thing to cease to exist in the minds of the observer the observer must completely forget about it. I don't think that is possible, as all things known are permanently recorded in the realm of the subconscious. |
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it is the complex maze of mind which you can never figure out and in
the end it will be certain mental death owing to the "brain devouring minotaur" one literally ponders such things until the cranium over heats and the grey matter melts.
but if you ignore it - it goes away.... |
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Edited by
missyfissy
on
Fri 09/09/11 11:03 PM
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The True Meaning Of Things A Secret of Successful People "Here's a fact: there isn't a right or wrong answer to the meaning of things that happen in life. We humans, whether consciously or sub-consciously, choose meanings for everything that happens around us. Successful people are such because they have learned to harness the power held within the secret. Successful people choose positive, empowering, and happy meanings for virtually everything that happens in their life. And in addition to this, they do it consciously until they fully train their own minds to do it sub-consciously because people aren't born to be successful or anything." http://www.soompi.com/forums/topic/249915-the-true-meaning-of-things/ You come up with some extremely interesting and fun things, Jeanniebean. Let's play with this one though, for the fun of philosophizing. (Love philosophizing just for the fun of the game). You say people weren't born to be successful or anything but what if they were? What if "we believed" successful people chose positive, empowering, and happy meanings for everything that happened in their lives when in actual fact they never chose those things at all, but only started believing those things after they became successful (maybe even as early as the age of three)? And if they only developed that belief later, would they want to admit it to us and let us know they truly never "worked" for that success but that it was given to them practically at birth? Sometimes I've looked at the faces of babies as young as 6 months, and have said to myself, "that baby looks as though he's going to be one successful adult!" The next looks as though his life is destined for ultimate sorrow. In some cases the feeling is so strong when I look at the latter that I feel like crying. I get the feeling immediately from some babies that they are "unloved" and have felt that from the minute they came out of the birth canal. I think maybe happy babies turn out to be happy and successful adults for the most part, while the less happy babies turn out the opposite for the most part. Have you ever noticed those looks in the young babies? If so, what do "you" think in that regard? |
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The True Meaning Of Things A Secret of Successful People "Here's a fact: there isn't a right or wrong answer to the meaning of things that happen in life. We humans, whether consciously or sub-consciously, choose meanings for everything that happens around us. Successful people are such because they have learned to harness the power held within the secret. Successful people choose positive, empowering, and happy meanings for virtually everything that happens in their life. And in addition to this, they do it consciously until they fully train their own minds to do it sub-consciously because people aren't born to be successful or anything." http://www.soompi.com/forums/topic/249915-the-true-meaning-of-things/ You come up with some extremely interesting and fun things, Jeanniebean. Let's play with this one though, for the fun of philosophizing. (Love philosophizing just for the fun of the game). You say people weren't born to be successful or anything but what if they were? What if "we believed" successful people chose positive, empowering, and happy meanings for everything that happened in their lives when in actual fact they never chose those things at all, but only started believing those things after they became successful (maybe even as early as the age of three)? And if they only developed that belief later, would they want to admit it to us and let us know they truly never "worked" for that success but that it was given to them practically at birth? Sometimes I've looked at the faces of babies as young as 6 months, and have said to myself, "that baby looks as though he's going to be one successful adult!" The next looks as though his life is destined for ultimate sorrow. In some cases the feeling is so strong when I look at the latter that I feel like crying. I get the feeling immediately from some babies that they are "unloved" and have felt that from the minute they came out of the birth canal. I think maybe happy babies turn out to be happy and successful adults for the most part, while the less happy babies turn out the opposite for the most part. Have you ever noticed those looks in the young babies? If so, what do "you" think in that regard? The first quote above was a cut and past quote from the website listed, so it was not something I personally wrote. I believe in multiple incarnations, so a new born baby can come into the world with particular vibrations and very distinctive personality traits that they can keep their entire lives. I don't know if that is their soul, but possibly. Some will say it is in their genes or their DNA. But I do believe that we (humans) begin creating our lives and attracting things from the day we are born. Its the law of attraction and vibration. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sat 09/10/11 01:33 AM
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Redykeulous:
Successful people choose positive, empowering, and happy meanings for virtually everything that happens in their life. And in addition to this, they do it consciously until they fully train their own minds to do it sub-consciously because people aren't born to be successful or anything."
The quote above is a good example of why Robbin’s idea fails. What does it mean to be successful? According to Robbins every person attributes their own meaning to what success is. All we can actually discern from the quote is that Robbins thinks that success occurs when a person thinks only positive, empowering, and happy thoughts. To me, that’s not success, that’s just annoying, not to meantion that Robbins is not making good use of the English language. "NOTHING HAS ANY MEANING EXCEPT THE MEANING WE
GIVE IT The suggestion in this second quote is that WE give meaning to things. Who is We? The image that is conjured by an individual when the word ‘CHAIR’ is used may be completely different than the image that was in the mind of the person who invoked the word, yet there is no question of what the word means. Regardless of what image any individual holds when hearing the word, chair, there is STILL a common understanding of the word which gives the word the same meaning to everyone. Therefore, the WE referred to, is all people for whom the word ‘chair’ is part of the vocabulary. The meaning is NOT different, it is based on the ‘utility’ which the word invokes regardless of the image that any person may visualize. I don’t know much about Robbins, but from what has been posted here, he seems to be as lax in his use of the English language as he is in the logic he attaches to it. Robbins wrote a very thick book called "Ultimate Power" of which I have a copy. I found it difficult to get through. I think it utilizes NLP techniques, visualization, breathing etc. I see nothing wrong with his use of the English language though. The suggestion in this second quote is that WE give meaning to things. Who is We?
We is we. LOL. Let me rewrite it in a more personal note. Nothing has any meaning (to me) except the meaning I give it. Nothing has any meaning (to you) except the meaning you give it. |
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I think you missed the point Billy. It is subtle, so it need be worked into a conversation... Intention, perception, feeling these are the grist of the consciousness mill. It is not always easy, but we can change the way we feel about things.
We can, but how do we go about doing that? You change the way you feel about things by reframing it. Looking at it differently, from different perspectives. |
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My point here Jb, is that we can wrongfully attribute meaning to any given set of circumstances/events. Therefore, we know that the meaning we attribute to things is not necessarily true. If it is not true, then it does not belong to those events, rather it belongs to us. However, because we can rightfully attribute meaning, it is likewise clear that the meaning can belong to the events themselves.
Meaning is not purely subject to our minds. Our attribution of it is. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sat 09/10/11 10:05 AM
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My point here Jb, is that we can wrongfully attribute meaning to any given set of circumstances/events. Therefore, we know that the meaning we attribute to things is not necessarily true. If it is not true, then it does not belong to those events, rather it belongs to us. However, because we can rightfully attribute meaning, it is likewise clear that the meaning can belong to the events themselves. Meaning is not purely subject to our minds. Our attribution of it is. Well I did not say that the meaning we give things necessarily has to be "true" or true according to agreement. It is mostly personal. As for your last statement, it is our minds that give things meaning. Without minds... meaning is meaningless or a mote point. So is meaning subject to minds? Yes, I think it is. you are always wanting to remove the observer from the picture for some reason. Without the observer, meaning is a mote point. |
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I'm imagining a baby bird... wings flapping... mouth open... screeching at the parent bird. -- According to the OP this series of events has no meaning unless humans attach meaning to it. My cat, (her name is agent 99) assigns meaning to that. She climbs the tree and makes a meal out of those birds. The meaning to her is ... dinner! 
To the bird parents, the meaning is... gotta feed those hungry mouths again. To me, if I happen to see them, the meaning is: I see the birds have made a nest and are raising some little ones. |
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As difficult as this concept may be to grasp, the understanding of it is critical to live a life of self-control. It takes discipline and mental strength to TRULY understand that nothing has meaning except for the meaning you give it. If this seems is difficult to accept, and yet at some level you do understand it repeat this phrase several times a day for the next week. “Nothing has meaning except for the meaning I give it” I'm not sure that that applies to money. How would we be able to purchase food if we didn't have any? |
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Harv Eker, teaches “Nothing has meaning except for the meaning we give it.” On the surface this seems so simply, and it is….but it’s not easy to truly understand. Think about this…there is no happiness, confidence or misery in the world. All these are emotions and meanings the WE project onto a situation. Don’t believe me? Try this, look in pockets or purse for happiness, did you find any? Or take a look in the cracks of the sofa for some confidence, find any? No…maybe you found a few quarters, but no confidence. As difficult as this concept may be to grasp, the understanding of it is critical to live a life of self-control. It takes discipline and mental strength to TRULY understand that nothing has meaning except for the meaning you give it. If this seems is difficult to accept, and yet at some level you do understand it repeat this phrase several times a day for the next week. “Nothing has meaning except for the meaning I give it” Once you accept as this a true, it will mean that YOU will now be in control of your thoughts, and your thoughts will dictate your feelings. All meanings and emotions reside in our “inner world”, the world of beliefs, thoughts and feelings. The “outer world” is the world of situations, experiences and the gross material. It is your inner world that creates meaning for your outer world. When you come to master this you will be in complete control of your own experiences, results and future. I’d like to leave you this little twist…nothing has meaning except for the meaning you give it…especially your life! Reference taken from: http://www.warriormindcoach.com/blog/2009/01/12/nothing-has-meaning%E2%80%A6except-%E2%80%A6/ Love this its so AWESOME, thanks so much for sharing. |
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Hey Jeannie, I get what the man is saying and to a degree I agree (poetry in motion!!!!
) but it doesn't work like that for me, it works like this. Everything that happens in "my" life has meaning, specific meaning to me... Some is good, some is not so good...What I do find to be true is this...Everything that happens happens for a positive reason...The positive reason isn't always apparent at the time something is happening...Sometimes it can take years to see the positive within the negative, but they are there, they are always there. When you believe this way, the negatives become positives. To ignore the negatives would mean, ultimately, you miss out on a positive....
I bet this makes absolutely no sense to anyone but me! 
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